UKSaabs

THE site for UK Saab people!
It is currently Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:21 pm

All times are UTC



Forum rules


When you put a new thread up in the Workshop please put your car's year of registration (not plate or model year) in the post subject/thread title, along with just a brief indicator of the problem.

Registration Year - Car Model: Brief description of issue. EXAMPLE- 1999 9-3. Problems starting when hot.

For Tech II issues or help requests please state the following in your title ''Tech 2 help required - state issue and your location ''.


Please also add as much information as you can about the problem, to your post.

This will help us to help you, without having to ask basic details such as what car you have.


Threads with non-compliant titles will be moved to The Pit Lane (in which no replies can be posted, but the OP can edit the thread - upon which the thread will be released to the workshop forum, note compliant threads will be moved back when the mod/admin team next visit the Pit Lane. if your thread has been sat in the Pit Lane for 24hrs+ after editing, pm Tech II to request release)

Nb. Generic thread titles for truly generic issues that genuinely are not model or variant specific (such as "how do I change the spring in an forge wastegate actuator") are acceptable

**The first 5 posts for new users require individual moderator approval (which they will only get it if they are in line the rules of the forum). Please be patient and allow time for that to happen, and avoid duplicate postings.**



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:44 pm
Posts: 5
Location: East Devon
Car Models: 93 SE
The Bosch pump on my 2001 9-3 SE 2.2 tdi has packed in. A specialist diesel pump firm has told me that it cannot be repaired. A new pump is c£2,500 +VAT and at least a day's labour. The rest of the car is in good order and I really don't want to have to scrap it. Anyone have any ideas what I can do about this situation? Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:18 pm 
Offline
UKS Addict

Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:41 am
Posts: 5140
Location: Royal Tunbridge Wells
Car Models: '03 9-5 2.3 Vector Auto Estate Noob Stg 1, Suzuki S Cross, '81 TR7 DHC
Welcome to the forum.
I don't know much about the 2.2 oil burner and can only suggest getting a second hand one from a breaker. I think they have an ECU built in and need programming to the car so are expensive. Others with more knowledge may be along to correct me.

_________________
Alan

'03 9-5 2.3t Vector Estate Auto Noob Stg 1
'01 9-3 2.0t SE Vert Auto
'81 Triumph TR7 DHC


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:56 pm 
Offline
UKS Addict
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:32 pm
Posts: 6569
Location: Glenrothes, Fife
Car Models: 95, 99, 900, 9000, 93, Sonett
Did the specialist advise if the pump body & rotor had failed, or if it is the ECU itself? The body is finely toleranced, the internals can wear and fragments break off, damaging the housing beyond repair. Alternatively, the ECUs are known to overheat with insufficient fuel flow, and the big transistor burns out. This is repairable. The solder joints internally eventually go dry with thousands of heat cycles, again this is repairable.

What were the failure symptoms, and how was the car driving before the failure? My 2.2 is just coming up to 286k on the original pump, and it's failure is probably what will render the car financially unviable. I'm in the process of spending probably close to four figures getting a load of welding done along with a full new exhaust for the MoT, so common sense and I are not always on speaking terms - I'll tend to spend money when others would cut their losses.

_________________
MY70 95 V4 Van
MY73 95 V4
MY73 Sonett 3
MY83 99GL
MY89 900i S
MY96 9000 Aero
MY02 93 2.2 TiD x2


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:40 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:44 pm
Posts: 5
Location: East Devon
Car Models: 93 SE
The car simply refused to start, and when hooked up to the computer showed a fuel pump failure with no further detail. It had previously been driving fine. The serial no on the Bosch pump is 0470504201 if that helps. It's got 178k on the clock. I'm told that the 2.2s were fitted with 2 different types of pump, one which is repairable and one which isn't, and the firm I've been in touch with have said that it's the latter. How realistic is it to find a second hand pump and re-code the ECU?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 8:40 am 
Offline
UKS Addict
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:32 pm
Posts: 6569
Location: Glenrothes, Fife
Car Models: 95, 99, 900, 9000, 93, Sonett
Charlieh wrote:
The car simply refused to start, and when hooked up to the computer showed a fuel pump failure with no further detail. It had previously been driving fine. The serial no on the Bosch pump is 0470504201 if that helps. It's got 178k on the clock. I'm told that the 2.2s were fitted with 2 different types of pump, one which is repairable and one which isn't, and the firm I've been in touch with have said that it's the latter. How realistic is it to find a second hand pump and re-code the ECU?

I believe the 115ps and later 125ps were fitted with different pumps. I was doing quite a bit of research into this very recently, as someone who shall remain nameless (not me I hasten to add!) managed to fill my car to the brim with petrol, and drove it until it stopped. I was convinced the pump would be wrecked, and looking around for replacements, there isn't very much available apart from fabulously expensive new units - as you said earlier somewhat expensive - I have seen units for ~ £1,000, much less than you have been quoted, but hardly a cheap day out. Thankfully my pump survived, but it has made me think very seriously about what I would do in the event that the pump failed. The Bosch VP44 is a very advanced pump for it's time, and there is a lot of knowledge in the USA, where they were fitted to all manner of vehicles in their hundreds of thousands.

There are companies in the UK who can rebuild your existing pump, but it's an involved job getting it off the engine in the first place. I haven't used either of these companies myself, but I had scoped them out in the event that my pump was knackered. The first one can repair the common ECU failure fault, which is what I suspect yours will be. The ECU can be removed from the body of the fuel pump by careful cutting and rejoining of the wires connecting it to the pump body, so is the cheaper and simpler option.

https://www.ecutesting.com/categories/diesel-pumps/

These guys offer a reconditioned pump on an exchange basis. The part number is slightly different, meaning the fuelling may be slightly different, but the body and connections should be the same, and is listed to fit the D223L engine. This would be your best bet if the ECU repair doesn't work out, or if you just want to go wholesale for replacement.

https://www.pbasher.com/shop/diesel-fue ... 0470504004

Full replacement won't be a cheap option, but if the rest of the vehicle is in good condition, an outlay now would probably give you many years of happy motoring. These pumps are a known weak spot on these engines, so eliminating that would give long term peace of mind.

_________________
MY70 95 V4 Van
MY73 95 V4
MY73 Sonett 3
MY83 99GL
MY89 900i S
MY96 9000 Aero
MY02 93 2.2 TiD x2


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:44 pm
Posts: 5
Location: East Devon
Car Models: 93 SE
Thank you for all this very helpful info, really appreciated. We've got the pump out (about 4 hours labour) so will try the ECU test route first.
I'll keep you posted on progress (or lack thereof!)
all best Charlie


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:44 pm
Posts: 5
Location: East Devon
Car Models: 93 SE
I sent the pump with ECU attached to ECU Testing in Derbyshire. They've just got back to me to tell me that they can't test the ECU as they couldn't decode the unit to run a test as if it were on the car. If it helps, the error message is "no communication with pump", which suggests that it's the ECU that's gone down. Any recommendations/suggestions as to where I go now? If I get a reconditioned pump from the firm in Southampton I'd need to get the ECU on that one re-coded, and presume that can only be done once it's all refitted to the car? What does the process of re-coding actually involve? Sorry about all the questions.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:55 am 
Offline
UKS Addict
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:32 pm
Posts: 6569
Location: Glenrothes, Fife
Car Models: 95, 99, 900, 9000, 93, Sonett
Are the ECU testing people saying they are unable to repair as they cannot communicate with the ECU? I would have hoped that would be the starting point for them to work their magic.

As regards the coding, as far as I understand, these pumps do not need to be coded or decoded to/from the vehicle on the OG93, unlike later cars with more complex communications systems.

Below is a link to a Ford site where the same pump is used - it appears the coding is used for fuel adaption.

http://blog.eobdtool.co.uk/ford-transit ... -vs-focom/

It may be worth speaking with your local diesel specialist again to explore the options on reconditioned replacements, and the details of the coding, specifically if they can do it.

_________________
MY70 95 V4 Van
MY73 95 V4
MY73 Sonett 3
MY83 99GL
MY89 900i S
MY96 9000 Aero
MY02 93 2.2 TiD x2


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:17 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:44 pm
Posts: 5
Location: East Devon
Car Models: 93 SE
Very many thanks again!
The firm in Derby said that because of the version of the software the system type contains they couldn't decode to run on their testing equipment. Which I presume means that they can't communicate with the ECU.
Hopefully you're right about coding/decoding of my model. Will investigate further.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

follow UKSaabs on Twitter



UKSaabs silhouette logo images by Mark Green www.greenphotos.com
"subsilver2" slightly bodged by UKSaabs for our own use.

:: Disclaimer ::
Comments posted here are the views of their individual authors and are not necessarily shared by the owners of this Web site.
Authors assume all responsibility for comments posted here.

UKSaabs The biggest and best privately owned UK based independent Saab forum for all SAAB enthusiasts.
Whilst we encourage our users to support our advertisers the site wishes to remain independent and therefore does not endorse any particular advertiser(s)
UKSaabs is not affiliated with Saab Cars UK or Saab Automobile AB