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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 7280
Location: Queenborough, Kent
Car Models: 9k, 2 x 9-5's & a Jaaag
valve on no. 1 is a flow restrictor, correct it should pass both ways
no. 4 is the brake vacuum line, there is a non-return valve between the inlet manifold connection and where it tees into the main line running between brake servo and vacuum pump on end of exhaust camshaft

when you say "3 way connector on turbo downpipe", do you mean the APC solenoid?

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'98 9000 2.3T CSE, stage 3
'04 9-5 Aero manual, stage 3
'08 Jaguar XFR
'10 9-5 2.3T Turbo Edition


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:20 pm
Posts: 16
Car Models: 2010 2.3T Turbo Edition Est.
Not sure to be honest. So in sequential order, air filter > MAF > push fit connector (pipe 1 from trap) and below this attached to down pipe is the 3 way connector with rubber hoses running to turbo and possibly elsewhere.
So on pipe 4 there are two black valves that I can't make out numbers, one on feed section before manifold push fit, and one on pipe run to vacuum pump on cylinder head. So are both these black valves non return. Neither black valve or the grey/white restrictor have ever been changed, I have complete history of invoices etc.
Find that the systems are awkward to check, pipes all look ok, but without removing are difficult to check for cracks/holes.
As said previous, the latex glove on oil filler indicates a lack of vacuum or negative pressure from crankcase, but not sure how reliable this check is with a turbo engine. Expected there to be vacuum on turbo down pipe if removing pipe 1 from push fit due to air rushing past, but there appears to be none, but I suppose this also depends on what turbo is drawing and when.
Seems to be a subject that is open to conjecture, believe me I have watched many you tube vids and read many forum threads etc but achieved little understanding. Perhaps I'm just a dumb bottom !


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:47 am
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Location: Queenborough, Kent
Car Models: 9k, 2 x 9-5's & a Jaaag
Does the three-way connector also have an electrical connection? If so, that's the APC solenoid. I'll have to double-check the setup on my 2010MY 9-5, butI I'm reasonably sure the later cars deleted the evap connection to the turbo inlet side, so that take-off from the cobra pipe only connects to the "R" connection on the APC solenoid. Both valves on the brake line are non-return valves (or should be!). I'd had that pipe fail immediately after the join between the inlet manifold NRV and the rest of that pipe - which was difficult to find because the weight of the pipe naturally pressed it down and made it look like it was OK ...

I doubt you'd get much of a vacuum when removing the no.1 pipe from the "cobra" pipe at idle because it won't be sucking much air in to run the engine. I think you'd have to be running with a reasonable load on the engine to see that, which is also why it's a push fit ... the vacuum generated whilst under load would serve to pull the plastic pipe into the cobra pipe anyway.

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'98 9000 2.3T CSE, stage 3
'04 9-5 Aero manual, stage 3
'08 Jaguar XFR
'10 9-5 2.3T Turbo Edition


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:20 pm
Posts: 16
Car Models: 2010 2.3T Turbo Edition Est.
Just purchased 8mm pipe with 2 black valves from brake servo via inlet manifold to vacuum pump, possibly is ok but will change anyway. Also purchased full service kit as certain items are long overdue; ie. cabin filter and plugs - which are not standard but NGK 7 not 6, although have no idea why or what the difference is, all from Neos. Also ordered another 8 L of auto fluid to ensure well and truly flushed.
Gave engine a proper blast today on way home from work, seemed fine up till approx 80mph but then felt as if holding back or almost like drive slippage. Have never really gunned it in 6 years, so not entirely sure what it should feel like, but did not feel right so eased off just before 90. No boy racer to be honest, fuel too expensive and don't want the points on licence either. Still noticeably less smoke on cold starts which is a plus.
Still checking around information to get my head around things, found some of your previous threads regards evap system. Although useful with tools have avoided most vehicle work for last 25 years or so, much easier when cars were cars and not mobile computers, used to be much easier to get access also. Perhaps should have bought something vintage !!


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:55 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:23 pm
Posts: 2344
Location: Sussex
Car Models: '04 9-5 Aero est., '97 9K Aero
In case of interest - 2004 car after mod to the later evap config, deleting the branch from the evap valve to the cobra. I re-used the 90 degree bend because it has a rigid core. Some replacement fuel hose I tried first was sucked flat. Aftermarket aluminium valve visible near the inner wing.

Attachment:
20200330_114053.jpg
20200330_114053.jpg [ 178.34 KiB | Viewed 62 times ]


This is the evap NRV failure mode - the rubber disc doesn't seal centrally.

Attachment:
20170828_114221.jpg
20170828_114221.jpg [ 107.3 KiB | Viewed 62 times ]


The dashed red line shows the deleted section (thanks sgould)

Attachment:
9-5 evap system.png
9-5 evap system.png [ 41.65 KiB | Viewed 62 times ]


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:41 am
Posts: 5035
Location: Royal Tunbridge Wells
Car Models: '03 9-5 2.3 Vector Auto Estate Noob Stg 1, Suzuki S Cross, '81 TR7 DHC
I did similar to Doug on my '03 car. I could not get the NRV out of the hard line so replaced the complete hard line with petrol pipe (not noticed any suction flattening but that may be because I have not looked for it, the pipe is quite firm) and the NRV. I used a plastic elbow fitting to turn the the pipe into the Evap valve connection and similarly a plastic straight connector on the pipe to the cobra to replace the T. I did it mainly because the line from the cobra connection to the evap line T split so took the opportunity to update the system.

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'03 9-5 2.3t Vector Estate Auto Noob Stg 1
'01 9-3 2.0t SE Vert Auto
'81 Triumph TR7 DHC


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:56 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:20 pm
Posts: 16
Car Models: 2010 2.3T Turbo Edition Est.
Thanks for input guys, have found check valve by power steering reservoir, would not know it was there, quick check shows hose that doubles back through wing is getting cut through on sharp edge due to no protection. As said, have avoided DIY mechanics for years so have little or no experience with PCV and evap systems, things have certainly got a lot more complicated than plugs, points, condenser, timing and carb mixture !
Will check out further when doing full service and another auto flush. At the moment appears to be running pretty well, gave it a proper blast in sport mode yesterday to 3 figures with no hesitation which made my bottom flutter somewhat, hopefully no dash cams recording ! Cold start is cleaner, but this may be due to oil level currently at minimum, I have little doubt that there is valve guide wear although compressions are good, and no visible evidence on piston crowns of oil, and no pending codes.
New guy has started at work with a 2005 2.0t 95 estate, seems that he has issues also, so anything I learn may help him out possibly. He loves the car but does not know where to start with diagnosing issues, already asked me if I'll sell mine !


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:44 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:20 pm
Posts: 16
Car Models: 2010 2.3T Turbo Edition Est.
If someone can enlighten me, I have the following questions.
1. I've seen threads regarding open Sid, is this available on the later sat nav displays or does it require software changes. Not that I will know any of potential information regards boost etc, but may help with diagnosis as do not have tech2.
2. Why would a Saab indie fit alternative plugs on a service. Standard are NGK PFR 6 H10, but those fitted are 7 H10. Tried to Google but not found any info regarding potential difference or reason, will this be detrimental to DIC.
3. Is it fair to say that 4 black valves found so far on PCV & evap systems are all one way valves. One way valve at rocker has been exchanged for aluminium variety, other valve between trap and turbo appears to be a Mann Hummel white/grey flow restrictor.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:51 am 
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Location: Queenborough, Kent
Car Models: 9k, 2 x 9-5's & a Jaaag
1) OpenSID needs to be enabled in the ECU software. Once this is done, it appears in the SID (at the bottom of the instrument cluster on yours) - not the sat nav display.
2) not sure, I believe the 7 H10 are a "warmer" plug meaning they run better on cold starts but will need changing out if you get a remap to increase power
3) yes, as you've identified the one in the pipe between oil trap and "cobra pipe" that runs across the cam cover is a flow restrictor, not a non-return valve

_________________
'98 9000 2.3T CSE, stage 3
'04 9-5 Aero manual, stage 3
'08 Jaguar XFR
'10 9-5 2.3T Turbo Edition


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2021 10:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:20 pm
Posts: 16
Car Models: 2010 2.3T Turbo Edition Est.
Thanks for reply Sounds. Have answered own question regarding black valves as service kit with new brake servo pipe arrived from Neos today, the blacks are definitely one way. If old pipe has valves that appear ok this will give me a potential spare for evap line by power steering reservoir should that prove sticky. Plugs will be changed for standard, and oil returned to 5W/30 GM along with GM filter from heavier 10W/60 Mobil that I tried, will be interesting to see if this effects cold start smoke.
Not bothered about power increase as plenty fast enough for me, just want it running as well as it can with reliability. Obviously will get issues due to age and mileage, but hopefully will preempt a few things, just need to get a better understanding of systems and diagnosis methods and pick up some pointers on what to watch for and keep on top of.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:28 am 
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Location: Queenborough, Kent
Car Models: 9k, 2 x 9-5's & a Jaaag
It is possible to simply enable OpenSID but leave the power as standard, it’s what my new one is currently set to - until I transfer the go-faster bits from my 54-reg, at which point I’ll get a remap from Karl. But as I have the “combiadaptor” which allows you to read/write the ECUs, all it cost me was a spare ECU (£16 on eBay) and a few hours of my time finding out how to get it to display the symbols I wanted to see. Probably cheaper to get a remap if you don’t have the kit, though ...

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'98 9000 2.3T CSE, stage 3
'04 9-5 Aero manual, stage 3
'08 Jaguar XFR
'10 9-5 2.3T Turbo Edition


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