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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:35 am 
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 4:39 pm
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Location: Auchindoun, Moray, North east Scotland
Car Models: Saab 99 T16 project
Morning!
I have a friend's 900 here, on his way back from his Covid vaccine he was having difficulty getting gears and eventually stopped, pretty sure that was a hydraulic issue, but I do know that either him or the mechanic called out forced it into gear to move it :(

Problem now is I have 1st, 2nd, and reverse, pretty sure it's 5th I'm finding at the top right and all those feel like they're where they're meant to be, clutch is clearing, no grinding, and the car moves BUT 3rd and 4th just won't go in, like there's a block rather than them being easy but no gear to find.

Linkage all feels tight, had the gearstick out, looks ok, length of the pin on the bottom meets the manual spec and I'm increasingly thinking it's inside the box, is there a weak bit that's likely to have broken when forcing it?
ie, is there a roll pin or something that holds on the 3rd/4th selector?
Thank you for any help

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1984 99GL T16, 1980 99 Turbo, 1979 4dr 99GL, 1976 99 GLE, 1975 4dr 99, 1974 99 EMS


Last edited by ianlaw on Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 12:46 pm 
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Car Models: 900
Is third and fourth a no go both with engine running and not?


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 1:02 pm 
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Location: Auchindoun, Moray, North east Scotland
Car Models: Saab 99 T16 project
Mr Haynes wrote:
Is third and fourth a no go both with engine running and not?


Yes just the same! I’m literally away to pop the side cover off, wonder what we’ll see!

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1984 99GL T16, 1980 99 Turbo, 1979 4dr 99GL, 1976 99 GLE, 1975 4dr 99, 1974 99 EMS


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2021 2:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 4:39 pm
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Location: Auchindoun, Moray, North east Scotland
Car Models: Saab 99 T16 project
Now had the side cover off, 3rd and 4th won’t go in, like there’s an obstruction, starting to feel like it’s an “engine out” scenario

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1984 99GL T16, 1980 99 Turbo, 1979 4dr 99GL, 1976 99 GLE, 1975 4dr 99, 1974 99 EMS


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 8:34 am 
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 4:39 pm
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Location: Auchindoun, Moray, North east Scotland
Car Models: Saab 99 T16 project
You can now see the selector rod moving into the right position but the 3rd/4th gears are "blocking". If this was forced, could a synchro ring have stuck?

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1984 99GL T16, 1980 99 Turbo, 1979 4dr 99GL, 1976 99 GLE, 1975 4dr 99, 1974 99 EMS


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:46 am 
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 4:39 pm
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Location: Auchindoun, Moray, North east Scotland
Car Models: Saab 99 T16 project
I've put this all back together, on the basis that if it gets an exchange gearbox then it'll be sent away complete.

Where we are now

1st, 2nd, 5th, reverse, all work as they should on the road.
3rd selects with a minor snatch on the way up, works as it should once in but offers to grind if you try it on the way down.
4th won't select whether running or not, just "blocks"
hopeful all of this might help anyone advise their thoughts.

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1984 99GL T16, 1980 99 Turbo, 1979 4dr 99GL, 1976 99 GLE, 1975 4dr 99, 1974 99 EMS


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 12:55 pm 
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Car Models: 900
Was there any signs of debris?
Does sound like something has happened to the selector fork and/or hub.
Worn synchros would have noticeably got worse over a period of time


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 1:41 pm 
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Location: Auchindoun, Moray, North east Scotland
Car Models: Saab 99 T16 project
Mr Haynes wrote:
Was there any signs of debris?
Does sound like something has happened to the selector fork and/or hub.
Worn synchros would have noticeably got worse over a period of time


Not much stuck to the plug at all, aside from a very small piece of chipped tooth which I assume is the usual reverse, and nothing else in the oil.

Really feels like 4th synchro has stuck itself solid and now causing a block, however possible/impossible that is!
Sorry for all the questions but it's a tidy low mileage car that's never had the engine out and I'm reluctant to do it if there's any way it would fix in situ (feeling increasingly unlikely)

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1984 99GL T16, 1980 99 Turbo, 1979 4dr 99GL, 1976 99 GLE, 1975 4dr 99, 1974 99 EMS


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 3:52 pm 
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Car Models: 900
Sounds like the hub may be only partially moving over to 3rd, hence the grind as synchro ring not being allowed to grip.
Could be the fork. Synchro suddenly deciding to stick does seem unlikely. Have you checked the selector rod where it enters box?
Trying to decide if, say, a bit of tooth chip could lodge itself and restrict the fork/hub movement....
Unfortunately does appear to be an engine out jobby if the selector is ok.
I should say i haven't been inside a 900 box yet but numerous others.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 5:46 pm 
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Location: Near Liverpool
Car Models: Saab 900 and 99
Have you carefully checked the rubber joint and observed it moving during operation?

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900i 87
900T 81
99 TurboKiller
99 EMS 77
Lancer EVO 6 TME red
Lancer EVO 6 TME black
GR Yaris 21 Red


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 4:39 pm
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Location: Auchindoun, Moray, North east Scotland
Car Models: Saab 99 T16 project
Thanks for the reply folks!
99 EMS wrote:
Have you carefully checked the rubber joint and observed it moving during operation?


The joint looks like it's doing what it's meant to, and watching someone else moving the gearstick it feels like there's no undue flex in it, and when the selector is lined up for 4th you can see the engine squirm a bit lengthways on it's mountings, so it feels like the joint is good. Replace anyway?

_________________
1984 99GL T16, 1980 99 Turbo, 1979 4dr 99GL, 1976 99 GLE, 1975 4dr 99, 1974 99 EMS


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:19 pm 
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ianlaw wrote:
Thanks for the reply folks!
99 EMS wrote:
Have you carefully checked the rubber joint and observed it moving during operation?


The joint looks like it's doing what it's meant to, and watching someone else moving the gearstick it feels like there's no undue flex in it, and when the selector is lined up for 4th you can see the engine squirm a bit lengthways on it's mountings, so it feels like the joint is good. Replace anyway?


If the joint looks good and not split or perished I would leave it. You need to see it in operation with someone else engaging gears.

To eliminate the linkage entirely, remove the taper pin, then slide away the linkage and engage gears with the shaft coming out of the box, you will need a small srewdriver/bar to do this.

_________________
900i 87
900T 81
99 TurboKiller
99 EMS 77
Lancer EVO 6 TME red
Lancer EVO 6 TME black
GR Yaris 21 Red


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:47 pm 
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Saab Nut
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 4:39 pm
Posts: 1588
Location: Auchindoun, Moray, North east Scotland
Car Models: Saab 99 T16 project
99 EMS wrote:
If the joint looks good and not split or perished I would leave it. You need to see it in operation with someone else engaging gears.

To eliminate the linkage entirely, remove the taper pin, then slide away the linkage and engage gears with the shaft coming out of the box, you will need a small screwdriver/bar to do this.


Even with the linkage disconnected at the taper pin it's still "blocking" 4th, with the side cover off you can see it going into the selector but without being heavy handed it just won't go in. All lined up as it should be in the side cover..
Any chance if he's been trying to get it into 4th with no cutch that the synchro has "stuck" to the gear, or is it likely to be more complicated than that?
I've never had one apart and I feel someone else's car may be the wrong time to start learning.

_________________
1984 99GL T16, 1980 99 Turbo, 1979 4dr 99GL, 1976 99 GLE, 1975 4dr 99, 1974 99 EMS


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2021 6:50 pm 
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Location: Near Liverpool
Car Models: Saab 900 and 99
ianlaw wrote:
99 EMS wrote:
If the joint looks good and not split or perished I would leave it. You need to see it in operation with someone else engaging gears.

To eliminate the linkage entirely, remove the taper pin, then slide away the linkage and engage gears with the shaft coming out of the box, you will need a small screwdriver/bar to do this.


Even with the linkage disconnected at the taper pin it's still "blocking" 4th, with the side cover off you can see it going into the selector but without being heavy handed it just won't go in. All lined up as it should be in the side cover..
Any chance if he's been trying to get it into 4th with no cutch that the synchro has "stuck" to the gear, or is it likely to be more complicated than that?
I've never had one apart and I feel someone else's car may be the wrong time to start learning.


If you have got that far and it still won't engage, its looking like the box will have to be removed for further inspection.

_________________
900i 87
900T 81
99 TurboKiller
99 EMS 77
Lancer EVO 6 TME red
Lancer EVO 6 TME black
GR Yaris 21 Red


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