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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:20 am 
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Arkwright.
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:33 pm
Posts: 52683
Location: NETTLEHAM, LINCOLNSHIRE
Car Models: 1981 99 Turbo & 1979 C900 GLS + Jaguar XF 250 S/brake & FIAT 500 TwinAir
BIRDIEMANGO wrote:
ANY MODS READING...?

IS IT POSSIBLE TO ADD THESE INTERNET 'LINKS' FOR K-JET TROUBLESHOOTING,INTO THE 'KNOWLEDGE BASE' ON THE 'C900I AUTO K-JET WONT START' TOPIC?

IT'S CURRENTLY 'LOCKED' SO I AM UNABLE TO DO IT.... :wink:


Morning Jools, I have moved said thread out of the knowledgebase and made it a sticky at the top of this page.

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=204623

You can add the relevant info to that thread and just let me know once completed and I'll move it back.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:14 pm
Posts: 53
Car Models: c900 SE, 99t
Thanks Pete for the enlightening and succint reply, that does make a lot of sense. The cam timing thing I would be interested in knowing more about. Perhaps in a different thread.

It was definitely a budget compression gauge (argh I hate these crap plastic molded kits as much as the next person) but I was only looking for a near-enough figure to make sure Ian's car was not suffering some malady which would stop it from running at all.

99 Pete wrote:
Compression testing should also be done with wide open throttle


:roll: I late last night realised I hadn't done this! Newbie mistake. Will try again one day soon :oops:


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:13 pm 
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Full Pressure Turbo

Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:26 pm
Posts: 790
photosofpickles wrote:
Thanks Pete for the enlightening and succint reply, that does make a lot of sense. The cam timing thing I would be interested in knowing more about. Perhaps in a different thread.

It was definitely a budget compression gauge (argh I hate these crap plastic molded kits as much as the next person) but I was only looking for a near-enough figure to make sure Ian's car was not suffering some malady which would stop it from running at all.

99 Pete wrote:
Compression testing should also be done with wide open throttle


:roll: I late last night realised I hadn't done this! Newbie mistake. Will try again one day soon :oops:


To be honest on a engine with a single throttle and plenum inlet manifold it probably won't make any difference as the cylinder being tested can rob air from the other inlet tracts. I have found though that on individual throttle per cylinder engines it makes quite a bit of difference.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 12:32 pm 
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Full Pressure Turbo

Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:26 pm
Posts: 790
Cam timing and duration affect dynamic compression ratio because although the compression stroke starts as the piston passes BDC, actual compression doesn't start until the inlet valve is closed which will be sometime after BDC. How much after depends on the duration and timing of the cam. One of the reasons why highly tuned N/A engines with long duration cams have very high static compression ratios.......to make up for the otherwise very low dynamic compression ratio that would otherwise result.
Hope that helps to explain, otherwise you'll find plenty of info and probably better explanations if you Google it!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:58 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:14 pm
Posts: 53
Car Models: c900 SE, 99t
99 Pete wrote:
To be honest on a engine with a single throttle and plenum inlet manifold it probably won't make any difference as the cylinder being tested can rob air from the other inlet tracts. I have found though that on individual throttle per cylinder engines it makes quite a bit of difference.


Sorry to rob Ian's thread but I did go and do it again, open throttle did nothing!

However, I used a better battery than what was in the car.. bingo! extra +10-15 PSI per cylinder. Did a wet test too, and it had no difference in 2 cylinders so I stopped and went back to work :wink: Thanks for the tips, very interesting!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:44 am 
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UKS Addict
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Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 11:18 pm
Posts: 4563
Location: REMAINING UNFAITHFUL TO FACTORY STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS SINCE 1988
Car Models: OLD SAABS,VOLVOS&VW...
99 Pete wrote:
Cam timing and duration affect dynamic compression ratio because although the compression stroke starts as the piston passes BDC, actual compression doesn't start until the inlet valve is closed which will be sometime after BDC. How much after depends on the duration and timing of the cam. One of the reasons why highly tuned N/A engines with long duration cams have very high static compression ratios.......to make up for the otherwise very low dynamic compression ratio that would otherwise result.
Hope that helps to explain, otherwise you'll find plenty of info and probably better explanations if you Google it!



OF COURSE JUST TO ADD TO THIS,THAT THE 99 TURBO HAS A VERY 'MILD' DESIGN OF CAMSHAFT,AND THAT SPECULATION BACK IN THE DAY STATED THAT THE 'EMS' CAM WITH SLIGHTLY HIGHER LIFT,WOULD GIVE 'AMAZING' PERFORMANCE INCREASE'S......IF FITTED?


IN 'LAYMAN'S TERMS. THE ADVANTADGES OF A 'HIGH' LIFT CAM,IN N/A ENGINE.... ARE EXARCERATED IN A 99 TURBO,BY THE TURBO'S THIRST FOR AIR,(OR BOOST )WHICH SIMPLY FORCES THE COMPRESSION,STRAIGHT BACK OUT THE CYLINDER ,IF A 'LONG' DURATION/HIGH LIFT CAMSHAFT,IS UTILISED......

TO ADD TO 'PETE 99' THE N/A A-SERIES 1380 MINI STAGE RALLY CAR, WE RAN WITH FORGED STEEL CRANK,AND OVER 11 TO 1 COMPRESSION RATIO,HAD A SLIGHTLY MILDER CAMSHAFT FITTED(THAN FULL RACE SPEC)TO AID TORQUE AND LOW DOWN TRACTABILITY OUT OF MUUDY FOREST CORNERS. IF WE HAD USED IT FOR TARMAC RACING,AN 'ULTIMATE RACE SPEC' HIGHER LIFT CAM AGAIN,WOULD HAVE BEEN SELECTED,WHICH WOULD MOVE THE POWER BAND HIGHER UP THE REV RANGE...WHICH INCIDENTALLY, IT WOULD REV TO 9000 RPM.

BUT THIS OF COURSE,IS TO ILLUSTRATE,THE 'DIFFERENCE' BETWEEN A FULL ON N/A 11.1 TO 1 C/R RACE ENGINE,THE 9.0 TO 1 B202 16V TURBO APC ENGINE,OR INDEED THE 7.2 TO 1 CR B20 99 TURBO ENGINE.

SOMETIMES IT IS RATHER DIFFICULT TO FIND THE INFORMATION YOU NEED ?

AS REGARDS 99 TURBO DEVELOPMENT,THIS IS PROBABLY 'GOLD DUST'..... :|

IT ANSWERS A LOT OF QUESTIONS,MAYBE EXPLODES A FEW MYTHS....?
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=77024&hilit=99+TURBO+RALLY+MODS




viewtopic.php?f=12&t=66005&hilit=MORE+POWER+FOR+YOUR+99+TURBO

I TOOK THE LIBERTY OF ASKING A RATHER ENDEARING 'GENTLEMAN' ENGINEER,WHOM HAS ONE OF THE EARLIEST&FASTEST 3 DOOR 99 TURBO'S(PICTURED) IN THE UK,IF HE HAD ANY FIGURES IN THE EXTENSIVE&METICULOUS SERVICE PORTFOLIO,THAT HE KEEPS FOR HIS 99 TURBO?

THIS CAR IS PROBABALY THE LONGEST 'OWNED' 99 TURBO,BY ANY INDIVIDUAL OWNER CROSS THE GLOBE,NEVER MIND THE UK,SO WE CAN SAFELY SAY THAT HIS FIGURES ARE 'CONCRETE',OR 'SET IN STONE' AS IT WERE.....

THE COMPRESSIONS WERE TESTED BY HIMSELF IN 2018 WITH THE MILEAGE AT 106K,ON THE ORIGINAL ENGINE.

1.155 PSI
2.153 PSI
3.155 PSI
4.155 PSI

ALL DONE COLD&DRY.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:22 pm 
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Saab Nut
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 4:39 pm
Posts: 1588
Location: Auchindoun, Moray, North east Scotland
Car Models: Saab 99 T16 project
So, again, thanks to everyone for the help, we are getting somewhere, slowly!

So after the replacement metering head was fitted the car would start, first time every time cold but only on 3cyl and no idle. On Birdies advice I replaced the injectors, I fitted brand new Bosch items, this gave me perfect cold start on 4 cal, albeit no idle again, and no hot start.

Fuel control and system pressures seemed ok but it just felt like we were missing something, so back to basics:
With the flywheel set on 0 degrees we had this at the cam which seems fine

ImageUntitled by ianlaw99, on Flickr

ImageUntitled by ianlaw99, on Flickr

then we shifted to 23 degrees mark and found this, again fine, leads all in the right place etc
ImageUntitled by ianlaw99, on Flickr

But still no better, last night I rigged a remote start button so I could wind it from under the bonnet (great advice Madwelshman!), still the same, in fact I flooded it by lifting the metering flap manually and wondered if I'd managed to bypass the ballast accidentally and weaken the spark.

I've known for a while the accumulator is not working but even with the fuel pump relay bridged it would never "hot start"

Tonight I stuck in a different set of spark plugs, double checked the throttle flap setting (it was marginally too tight, I checked this before but was obviously wrong) I found a split in the safety switch vacuum hose on Saturday, those things combined gave me a car that burst into life tonight and idles to an extent, however, as and when it did die I saw the control pressure rocket, which I'm assuming means that my WUR is causing an obstruction and is then causing excess pressure and pushing the piston and flap in the metering head down and stalling the car?

Anyway, I'm at the point tonight that I think a new accumulator and either reclean the existing Warm up regulator or replace will probably get it running properly. When it does run it is sound.

Again, thanks for the continued support!

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1984 99GL T16, 1980 99 Turbo, 1979 4dr 99GL, 1976 99 GLE, 1975 4dr 99, 1974 99 EMS


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:18 pm 
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Full Pressure Turbo

Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:26 pm
Posts: 790
It won't fix your running problem but it looks like number 1 camshaft bearing cap is on upside down.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:50 am 
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Saab Nut
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Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 4:39 pm
Posts: 1588
Location: Auchindoun, Moray, North east Scotland
Car Models: Saab 99 T16 project
99 Pete wrote:
It won't fix your running problem but it looks like number 1 camshaft bearing cap is on upside down.


How on earth did I not notice that?!!! Thank you, I’ll get that sorted! :oops:

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1984 99GL T16, 1980 99 Turbo, 1979 4dr 99GL, 1976 99 GLE, 1975 4dr 99, 1974 99 EMS


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