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 Post subject: Re: Learning to weld
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:52 am
Posts: 70
Location: Suffolk
Car Models: Saab 99 turbo
In relation to what anjum said regards welding galv- I've had galv poisoning through welding before, unpleasant to say the least. Take great care with that...


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 Post subject: Re: Learning to weld
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:05 pm
Posts: 1610
Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Models: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
databar wrote:


Hi Pete,

Get one with a gauge on it .... like this (from Ebay)

[url][url=https://flic.kr/p/2jgLxNe]Image[/url]Untitled by Mike, on Flickr[/url]

That's a hobby gas bottle from Machinemart - £13-ish in the photo.

The second link you attached is not a hobby gas regulator, it's for full-sized bottles, different connection to the bottle (better ultimately but not so easy to get the gas as hobby weld if you are not a welder). Anyway that should do you I think.

Cheers
Mike

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 Post subject: Re: Learning to weld
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:41 pm
Posts: 1707
Location: somerset
Car Models: 93 2007 Tid vert 93 2000 vert
Thanks Mike,
i thought someone said get a gauge and the the ones with gauges didn't look the
right connection.
Will go looking.

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Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.


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 Post subject: Re: Learning to weld
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:40 pm 
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Posts: 111
Location: West Lancashire
Car Models: 9-5 Aero Estate and 9-3 TiD
If you grind the galv off you can get away with it but best avoided

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 Post subject: Re: Learning to weld
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 9:53 pm
Posts: 17532
Location: Devon
I think most things have been covered by now.

  • It is possible to weld bodywork gasless. Many years ago I welded some sills and a couple of other panels onto my Minis using an arc (stick) welder! It wasn't easy but I just assumed that was because welding was hard. I taught myself from a booklet that came with the welder. Anyone who has done some bodywork these days would tell you it couldn't be done without a MIG welder. Well, back then a MIG set started at around £500, which is a lot now but was a small fortune nearly 40 years ago. Don't let anyone tell you you can't do it but be aware there are easier ways.
  • Having said not to let anyone tell you what you can't do :lol: , you *cannot* weld gasless without flux-cored wire. Well, you can but there will be no strength in the weld. The gasless process *requires* flux to provide the shielding and prevent the weld from combining with oxygen and nitrogen in the air.
  • You probably won't be welding any galvanised parts. Some of the body panels might have a very thin zinc electroplate (and so might the metal you use to patch it, for example "Zintec"). However, take good care to avoid breathing any fumes. The only good thing to breathe is air, despite what vaping vendors might say. With gasless you will make more fumes than with gas.
  • I defy anyone to get comfortable while welding overhead under a car that is less than 2ft from the ground and wearing a welding mask. I was doing this just last weekend and while I thought I was comfortable to start with, that all went out the window once I started contorting myself around to weld the patch from various angles and got showered by drops of hot metal. Especially as I tried to reach around the axle-stand to get at one of the welds. Every time I weld underneath a car I long for a ramp. It all looked much easier when the MOT tester was pointing out the bits that needed attention, with the car on the ramp, of course.
  • The advice to use both hands is very sound. Try to position yourself so you can use one hand or arm to steady the hand holding the torch. You need to be precise and holding a torch in one hand at arm's length won't help.
  • Make sure you can see well. I did some of the best car welding last weekend that I have done in years, largely because I bought a new auto-darkening mask to replace the old one that was hard to see through and was also falling apart. If you normally wear glasses for close work, wear them. I was glad I did. I echo the points above on lighting the work well.
  • My first welder was a SIP Migmate 130. I only ever used it with gas but I ended up modifying it heavily in order to get it working in any half-decent fashion. Perhaps they are better now - I hope they are. There used to be lots of posts on mig-welding.co.uk about that model of welder. Clarke always got the best reviews there among all the entry-level welders.
  • Like others here, since I bought a power-file a few years ago I have found it surprisingly indispensable. Another useful thing I found last weekend was a Dremel we bought for work. I'd used cheap copies and they were rubbish but the real Dremel had enough power to zip through cutting out metal that were too awkward to get the grinder to. I was thoroughly amazed!
  • People say to practice on the thickness of metal you will be using on a car. You do need to do that before welding the car but it is best to start out with thicker metal so you experiment with settings and how to lay down a bead without treading the tightrope you wil eventually need to tread with thin metal between getting adequate penetration and blowing large holes every couple of seconds. Try laying down welds on a flat piece of thick metal wiothout trying to join two pieces together. Then take some thick-ish pieces of metal and join them together. Make something simple for a laugh.
  • Finally, patience is the key. It took me all weekend to get all the stuff together and end up with one rusty hole cut out and one patch welded in. Granted that there was a bracket welded over the hole and I had to remove that by drilling out the spot-welds, then after patching the hole, straighten the bracket, clean it up and plug-weld it back on in the correct position. I also had to remove some of the rear suspension and some plastic covers. I've already given up the goal of making the free MOT retest and that has made it much easier to be patient. The whole weekend I welded for less than 5 minutes yet I was busy the whole time. That's how it goes.

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 Post subject: Re: Learning to weld
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:02 am 
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Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 4:36 am
Posts: 6408
Location: London
Car Models: c900 convertible, XJS
Great advice, Bill.

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 Post subject: Re: Learning to weld
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 6:41 pm
Posts: 1707
Location: somerset
Car Models: 93 2007 Tid vert 93 2000 vert
Thanks Bill
Yes i have bought a SIP Migmate 130
so will be fun :loco:
The trouble is no one wants the work,
I've asked a few local garages to quote and no reply, so here i go...
when I've sorted all the bits and bobs to start.

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Punctuation, Spelling and Grammar will be used sparingly. Due to rising costs of inflation.


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 Post subject: Re: Learning to weld
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 12, 2004 9:53 pm
Posts: 17532
Location: Devon
Apologies for the haphazard order of the points I listed last night. I was struggling to stay awake.

databar wrote:
The trouble is no one wants the work,
I've asked a few local garages to quote and no reply

That may have saved you a load of hassle. Garages are used to customers wanting to pay the bare minimum for welding to get through another MOT so they do the bare minimum of work. Honestly, "MOT standard" welding is a very low standard indeed and it isn't unusual to see patches welded over rusty patches welded over more rusty patches welded over rusty bodywork. And what can't be seen doesn't get fixed. My other half and I once removed part of a rusty sill from her Jeep after an MOT failure to find a major part of the roll-over structure with large rusty holes in it. The MOT garage wouild simply have patched over the hole in the sill.

At the other end you have "restoration standard" welding and that is a completely different kettle of fish with a completely different price tag due to all the work that goes into deconstruction, rust removal, preparation and reconstruction, followed by decent paint and rustproofing. That's the sort of thing I aspire to, despite my limited skills. At least I make the effort :lol:
Like all car maintenance and repair tasks I always remember that no-one cares as much about doing a good job on my car as I do.

There is a list of the mods I made to my Migmate 130 somewhere on mig-welding.co.uk. If yours is of a similar vintage then it may be worth looking at. If yours is new or quite recent then it may well be a very different design and perhaps it might even need no modification at all. I bought mine new perhaps 15 or 16 years ago.

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