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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:26 pm 
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sgould wrote:
Is it a punishable offence to lie about your symptoms in order to get a free virus check at an NHS drive-through testing station?

I know someone who has admitted to doing this in order to save on the fee for getting a "virus free certificate" for air travel. The lady in question is always boasting about ways that she "gets around the stupid rules".

Hopefully her destination is Spain

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2020 10:36 pm 
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No, she's off to Greece.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:03 pm 
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I've heard conflicting stories from more than one source that the "death by/with coronavirus" are unreliable.

Hospitals have been putting coronavirus on death certificates of patients that have not been tested as negative, as a means of avoiding the cost of a postmortem, and selling it to relatives as "saving family anguish". This is being done regardless of the real cause of death.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:17 pm 
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I'm losing the plot regarding what the government is supposed to do, they were criticised for not going into lockdown (yet oddly none of the devolved governments did either despite doing everything else differently) , or closing the borders soon enough yet now they're being criticised for stopping holidays to Spain.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:49 pm 
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sgould wrote:
I've heard conflicting stories from more than one source that the "death by/with coronavirus" are unreliable.

Hospitals have been putting coronavirus on death certificates of patients that have not been tested as negative, as a means of avoiding the cost of a postmortem, and selling it to relatives as "saving family anguish". This is being done regardless of the real cause of death.


Shock horror, statistics being manipulated for political / convenience reasons, well I never. Bigger numbers scare people more too

The mortality statistics across international boundaries are not necessarily directly comparable either, the death is reasonably certain, the attributed cause far less certain.

Last time I looked, excess deaths in England & Wales have been negative for over 3 weeks and deaths from flu/pneumonia are running at 5 times the rate from Covid19


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:56 pm 
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If deaths from all causes are coming down, it may be (a) because so many of those most susceptible to seasonal illnesses have already died and (b) the precautions taken against C19 work to reduce the incidence of all transmissible diseases.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:07 pm 
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sgould wrote:
I've heard conflicting stories from more than one source that the "death by/with coronavirus" are unreliable.

Hospitals have been putting coronavirus on death certificates of patients that have not been tested as negative, as a means of avoiding the cost of a postmortem, and selling it to relatives as "saving family anguish". This is being done regardless of the real cause of death.

Look at Figure 2 here: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... t-cecbcd7c

The dark line shows the average number of deaths in the past 5 years. The yellow line shows this year's deaths. The difference is in all likelihood attributable to covid-19.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 02, 2020 6:42 pm 
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I'll embed this here to make the analysis easier, source

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending3july2020

Note in particular point 5 in the disclosure

"5. A death can be registered with both COVID-19 and Influenza and Pneumonia mentioned on the death certificate. Because pneumonia may be a consequence of COVID-19, deaths where both were mentioned have been counted only in the COVID-19 category"

In other words if a death can be ascribed to C19 it will be.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 6:01 pm 
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sgould wrote:
We have received a copy of a letter that our friend and neighbour has sent to the local MP, Oliver Dowden. She is a senior immunopathologist. It puts a different perspective on the whole Coronavirus and lockdown situation. From what she is saying, there is little merit in social distancing, face masks, etc. and that the prevention of infection should be targeted at keeping surfaces clean and washing hands.

Your friend and neighbour is somewhat isolated in her opinions. Following her advice would be dangerous.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 8:04 pm 
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saman wrote:
Your friend and neighbour is somewhat isolated in her opinions. Following her advice would be dangerous.

The problem with todays scientific consensus approach is that it is little different to that encountered by Gallileo Gallilei. Remember him, persecuted for supporting heliocentrism by the leading political authority of his time as being "foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture"

Replace "sense of Holy Scripture" with "consensus" and you'll see what I mean.

Kopernicus and Gallilei were very much of a minority view, but were correct. Everyone else was wrong.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2020 11:34 pm 
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carrera wrote:
saman wrote:
Your friend and neighbour is somewhat isolated in her opinions. Following her advice would be dangerous.

The problem with todays scientific consensus approach is that it is little different to that encountered by Gallileo Gallilei. Remember him, persecuted for supporting heliocentrism by the leading political authority of his time as being "foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture"

Replace "sense of Holy Scripture" with "consensus" and you'll see what I mean.

Kopernicus and Gallilei were very much of a minority view, but were correct. Everyone else was wrong.


Dr Andrew Wakefield was also in a minority but that was because he was wrong

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:07 am 
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carrera wrote:
saman wrote:
Your friend and neighbour is somewhat isolated in her opinions. Following her advice would be dangerous.

The problem with todays scientific consensus approach is that it is little different to that encountered by Gallileo Gallilei. Remember him, persecuted for supporting heliocentrism by the leading political authority of his time as being "foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture"

Replace "sense of Holy Scripture" with "consensus" and you'll see what I mean.

Kopernicus and Gallilei were very much of a minority view, but were correct. Everyone else was wrong.

That, unfortunately, is a completely invalid comparison because scientific consensus and religious consensus are reached in very different ways.

And then, of course, there are all those concrete reports of concrete events and concrete research that directly contradict what this friend and neighbour has said.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:25 am 
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Religion (a belief system) and politics (also a belief system) have always been intertwined as they are both about power. Science today is far more political than it ever used to be, with the ability to allow consideration or discussion of alternate hypothesis and viewpoints being much reduced.

See what is happening in universities or what types of research can or cannot attract funding. It's nowhere near as pure as it used to be.

We're probably at risk of going off topic now.... wouldn't want to get into trouble for that. I'm happy that the heliocentric view has been demonstrated by actual evidence, on other aspects a plurality of views means there isn't actually one science, so I have no choice but to consider and weigh the different views and perspectives. More shades of grey than black and white.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 2:45 pm 
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It’s seems strange that we now have to wear masks in shops, but the shop staff I’ve noticed are not wearing masks. Surely their more exposed to all these strangers than the shoppers?.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:11 pm 
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Most shops I have been in both the patrons and staff have been wearing masks unless the staff are behind Perspex shields - except the local Asian food shop where neither were wearing anything or shielded (did have mine on though)!

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:34 pm 
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Penelope pit stop wrote:
It’s seems strange that we now have to wear masks in shops, but the shop staff I’ve noticed are not wearing masks. Surely their more exposed to all these strangers than the shoppers?.

I'm under the impression that masks (especially the non-clinical rubbish everyone is wearing) is not at all effective at protecting you from infection, but may contribute towards the prevention of others being infected by you. With that in mind, it makes sense for the ones at risk through prolonged exposure (the workers) to not wear a mask, but for that to fall to those bringing the infection with them to the shop (the shoppers).

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:49 am 
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I see Aberdeen is back into lockdown - pubs, cafes and restaurants being ordered to close....

Thought the perfect General Secretary Wee Jimmy Crankee had everything under control north of the border.

I was half expecting Wrexham to be placed under curfew this weekend, and having to avoid the area when I travelled home to SW London from Denbigh. Cases are still quite prevalent and Wrexham Maelor hospital has many active cases.


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