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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:51 am 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Models: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
That's giving me trouble too, I don't see any spare wiring/connectors in that area other than one three-pin connector with Red, Orange and White wires running to it. I would like to think that it is the feed and return lines to the switches with one connector running between the switches to series them up but the wire colours are wrong sadly (one of them is anyway). My 3-way would be a perfect fit for H3-26 were it not for one wire colour and the Auto box element (maybe it's wrong ! ).

I need a photo of the CC ECU in position from somebody, I have looked in the engine bay near the battery and there is no sign of it, and no sign of a redundant 8-way connector either unless I am mistaken (I hope so).

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'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:59 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:41 am
Posts: 4329
Location: Royal Tunbridge Wells
Car Models: '03 9-5 2.3 Vector Auto Estate Noob Stg 1
masonmjs wrote:
Thanks for the encouragement gents, I think it will be OK now, just a bit worried about the spring clip on the flexi supply hose to the cylinder, I was able to remove and refit it with just my fingers, so I am guessing it may need to be replaced ideally. I'm especially worried about pressure bleeding it that way as it may give way under the abnormal pressure in that part of the system (I'm guessing it is gravity fed normally, so not pressurised).

I wasn't aware of the uprated flexi-hose from Bill at Saabits so I looked it up, I'm confused about the connection to the master cylinder as it looks like a metal union of some kind (not easy to see on the photo) whereas mine is just a slide over fit with the spring clip holding it in place. I'm guessing here that the advice would be to replace the flexi anyway as it is now 22 years old ?? (I also just realised that I am not in a hurry to tax the car before the end of the month so there is time).

Sadly I did manage to get hydraulic fluid on my newly painted wing (off my arms ! ) so I will have to repaint it at some point :wall: lessons learned, must get a wing/engine bay protector when working in the engine bay.


Pressure bleeding should not be a problem. An Easibleed only uses the pressure of a tyre at 20psi, I would imagine the system pressure when you put you foot on the pedal will be higher than that. I have used it on a lot of different cars and systems without problems. Some find it easier with a vacuum bleeder sucking the fluid through though.

I can't remember the detail of the replacement hose but it all connected OK. The flex hoses are a bit of a weak point, on my first 9k it popped at about 70k/5 years old just after I had bought it (replaced by the dealer).

Very irritating about the paint, sort of thing I would manage too unfortunately.

_________________
Alan

'03 9-5 2.3t Vector Estate Auto Noob Stg 1
'01 9-3 2.0t SE Vert Auto
'81 Triumph TR7 DHC


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:15 am 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Models: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
Hi Alan, thanks for coming back in on this ...

If I understand the principal, the supply side of the master cylinder, fed by the flexible, is not pressurised by the pedal (otherwise you would be pressurising the brake and clutch reservoir when you depressed the clutch pedal). So the flexible only ever sees the static head of the fluid (very low volume so very low static pressure). That's what's worrying me about pressure bleeding it (typically by pressurising the reservoir if using an Eazybleed kit), I would be pressurising a normally unpressurised line with a possible dodgy pipe clamp on it.

I could be wrong (and typically am :) ) about the above so please feel free to correct me where appropriate.

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:35 am 
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Full Pressure Turbo
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Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:14 pm
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Location: N Yorks
Car Models: 9-5 Aero Estates, 9-5 2.2 TiD estate, 9-5 2.0 Saloon, 9000 Aero
This is what you are looking for, near the battery. I don't have the 9000 to take a photo

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SAAB-9000-1998MY-CRUISE-CONTROL-ELECTRONIC-UNIT-5038849-CLASSIC-RARE-BRAND-NEW/233411203573?epid=1116475044

Also look in group 3A, section 1140 in the EPC

Your description of the three connector block H3-26 seems consistent with the colours in the wiring diagram


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:07 am 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Models: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
Looks like I could be missing all of it then, is there a cable connection to the throttle-body here ?? and how does that work with the normal pedal interface ? (I do have a cable running to the throttle-body !)

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:51 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:11 am
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The controller is held on the cabin side cheek of the battery box. Secured by 3 screws and rubber grommets. You just loosen the screws and slide the unit to one side to withdraw. Even if you dont have the unit I guess the holes should still be in the battery tray. The long spigot at the bottom of the controller houses the control cable that loops round and back to the throttle.[url]Image[/url]
The battery tray is removed in the photo.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:11 pm 
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Full Pressure Turbo
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Location: N Yorks
Car Models: 9-5 Aero Estates, 9-5 2.2 TiD estate, 9-5 2.0 Saloon, 9000 Aero
On the clutch feed your analysis is correct...... but just because it doesn't see pressure in normal use, doesn't mean it cannot take any.

I had to replace the feed line on my dads a few years ago. There was so much crud in the line it was preventing the MC from working / bleeding


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:13 pm 
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Location: Royal Tunbridge Wells
Car Models: '03 9-5 2.3 Vector Auto Estate Noob Stg 1
masonmjs wrote:
Hi Alan, thanks for coming back in on this ...

If I understand the principal, the supply side of the master cylinder, fed by the flexible, is not pressurised by the pedal (otherwise you would be pressurising the brake and clutch reservoir when you depressed the clutch pedal). So the flexible only ever sees the static head of the fluid (very low volume so very low static pressure). That's what's worrying me about pressure bleeding it (typically by pressurising the reservoir if using an Eazybleed kit), I would be pressurising a normally unpressurised line with a possible dodgy pipe clamp on it.

I could be wrong (and typically am :) ) about the above so please feel free to correct me where appropriate.


True, I see what you mean, I was only thinking of the flex from the M/C to the slave which is the one which normally goes pop. It is only the 9k that I have done it on with that system but never had a problem. I have done the brakes with the pressure bleeder more and have not had a problem and that must also pressurise the clutch feed line as it is from a common reservoir. Having said that, I think we renewed both flex's on Jens car in case the 'bits' in the system which seemed to stop proper clutch operation were coming from a breakdown of the feed pipe after 20+ years.

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Alan

'03 9-5 2.3t Vector Estate Auto Noob Stg 1
'01 9-3 2.0t SE Vert Auto
'81 Triumph TR7 DHC


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:36 pm 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Models: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
Thanks again gents, I definitely don't have the control unit fitted then, so it's clear I never had CC before as it has not been removed or anything like that.

A quick question Alan, is the flexi that Bill sells the one for the feed pipe or the delivery pipe to/from the M/C ?? it seems that you may have fitted the delivery pipe flexi before but not the feed ? I agree with you though, if you pressure bleed the brakes with 20psi then the clutch M/C feed pipe would also see the same pressure.

The main reason for asking is that I have not started on any bleeding yet as I wanted to be clear about the flexi replacement before I do that (not much point bleeding it then changing the pipe).

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:05 pm 
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Car Models: 9-5 Aero Estates, 9-5 2.2 TiD estate, 9-5 2.0 Saloon, 9000 Aero
The flexi isn't part of the bleeding problem, there are no traps so it will "self bleed" unless you put a U in it. In which case move the U along until any air is expelled

Putting it plain, if your clutch is working fine, changing the feed pipe shouldn't affect it.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:43 pm 
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Location: Royal Tunbridge Wells
Car Models: '03 9-5 2.3 Vector Auto Estate Noob Stg 1
IIRC we change both as Oli had both there and we did not know if the source of the 'bits' was the feed pipe. However, it is the pressure pipe from the M/C to the slave that normally pops, naturally it is worked under pressure every time the clutch is depressed. As Carrera says, changing will not change the bleed requirement, it is just a recommendation if it is original as it is easier to do once while the system is down rather than do it again later. The pipes Bill sells are braided so should be tougher than the original rubber.

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Alan

'03 9-5 2.3t Vector Estate Auto Noob Stg 1
'01 9-3 2.0t SE Vert Auto
'81 Triumph TR7 DHC


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:47 pm 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Models: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
carrera wrote:
The flexi isn't part of the bleeding problem, there are no traps so it will "self bleed" unless you put a U in it. In which case move the U along until any air is expelled

Putting it plain, if your clutch is working fine, changing the feed pipe shouldn't affect it.


No I meant that there wasn't much point in bleeding the system if I was breaking into it again, I would be bound to introduce some air into it if I replaced the feed pipe. I am going to try it tomorrow anyway, I don't have any fluid just now so will be getting that first thing and getting on with it. Ive got an Eezibleed kit so it should be OK fingers crossed. The clutch was working fine before I pulled out the M/C so I don't think there is any problem with the delivery pipe, it just needs bleeding now so I will leave it at that I think.

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:20 am 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Models: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
!@£$%^&*( :wall: :wall: I can't get the clutch slave bleed nipple loose and am a little scared to put too much force on it at the risk of shearing it off, has anyone here ever broken one trying to do this ??

EDIT - got it :D :D , I gave it a few sharp taps on the top with an undersized socket and then put a 1/2 drive 13mm long reach socket on and tapped sharply anti-clockwise with a rubber mallet, that was just enough to get it cracked open, the rest was easy as they say (thank goodness).

In case anybody was wondering, this is what it looks like out of the car .....

ImageUntitled by Mike, on Flickr

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:51 pm
Posts: 1203
Location: Edinburgh
Car Models: 9-5 2.3t Arc Estate
Congratulations on the MOT success. I am a few days behind you but with luck tomorrow I might catch up.

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Saab 9-5 2.3t Arc auto estate (Big Red)
Saab 9000 2.3 CDi S auto
Saab 9-5 2.0t Airflow
Jaguar XJ6


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:52 pm 
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Posts: 1890
Location: Ashford, Kent
Car Models: 2x 9000 & 9-5
masonmjs wrote:
A quick question Alan, is the flexi that Bill sells the one for the feed pipe or the delivery pipe to/from the M/C ?? it seems that you may have fitted the delivery pipe flexi before but not the feed ? I agree with you though, if you pressure bleed the brakes with 20psi then the clutch M/C feed pipe would also see the same pressure.

Bill's replacement braided flexi is from M/C to slave. I happened to have an Abbott kit lying around which included the reservoir to M/C feed pipe so we replaced that too for good measure, however that is just plain rubber hose of the correct spec - I think around 1 metre, maybe 1.1 or so.

That still hurts you know, spending c.£600 unnecessarily on a new clutch only for the problem to be fixed with a £20 hose :wall:

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'75 Vauxhall Viva - '91 Eunos Roadster - '91 Mini - '94 SAAB 9000 - '97 SAAB 9000 - '08 SAAB 9-5 TiD


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:47 am 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Models: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
Thanks for the info, and commiserations on your unnecessary spend, I can only imagine how much that hurts .....

I was lucky in the end and got away with just the master cylinder repair kit and a few hours of work on the drive, worst part was the pedal clevis pin which was rusted into the pedal and needed a bit of 'persuasion' to come out (mind you the M/C was not easy to get out either, the retaining nuts are both hidden from view from either the top or the bottom of the engine, so it's all done by feel). The clutch pedal does seem easier to operate now that the pin can swivel too, and it's nice to know that my carpet has stopped soaking up leaked hydraulic fluid :D

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:03 am 
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Location: N Yorks
Car Models: 9-5 Aero Estates, 9-5 2.2 TiD estate, 9-5 2.0 Saloon, 9000 Aero
Happy new car day !

I assume she's now your daily........ unless you have nowhere to sit ?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:53 am 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Models: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
Thanks David,

Yes I have been out in it to collect some parts for my daughters Fiat 500 and to go and see the chap who's car I reversed into, it was different to say the least having spent the last 10 years or so driving an automatic. Nice to see I can still drive a manual though, but I would have to say that around the town I prefer the auto :)

I'm off to Pontefract on Saturday to collect the electric seat frames off Fred Saxon, it would be great to have some electric seats working as I don't like the range of adjustment much on the manual 9000 seats but that will have to wait a little while as some of the bits were missing when he last looked (leathers I knew about, buttons and side covers are a new development).

I fitted the cruise control unit yesterday, I am still missing the pedal switches and cable to them but am trying to source S/H ones at the moment, if all else fails I will have to buy new ones.

Cheers

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:49 pm 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Models: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
Got the pedal switches and cable today courtesy of Nelliem on here (thanks Mark) and will be fitting them as soon as I can get some decent weather .... meanwhile a photo of the switches and cable for those who have never seen them ....

ImageUntitled by Mike, on Flickr

Switches are identical for brake and clutch pedals (note, there is another 'brake light' switch on the passenger side of the car, not to be confused with these CC pedal switches).

Note to self, must remember to wash hands before using the computer :oops:

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:29 pm 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Models: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
Got the switches and cable fitted today, not too much trouble really as the switches are just a press fit (much harder to remove of course) and the cable routing was the biggest question mark. In the end I elected to run the cable under the pedal box to get to the clutch pedal switch ( could have gone over the top of the steering column) and it looks fine as far as I can see.

Managed to get a photo of both switches in position and connected (nearest is the brake pedal obviously) :

ImageUntitled by Mike, on Flickr

I will test this later tomorrow and report back.

Edit : couldn't resist the temptation to try it out so I did - it works :) :) (but now my dash illumination doesn't :( I don't think this is a connected fault, just co-incidence I think).

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


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