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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:37 pm
Posts: 10
Car Model: 93 1.8t Sportwagon T.Edition
Hi, my 93 has been in the workshop for two and a half months now(!!!!!) with a misfiring issue. It won't start at all below 5°C and above that up to about 10°C it will eventually start but will misfire heavily until the choke turns off. It'll still be lumpy until it warms up fully, but the power can feel all there or like it's lacking a bit. Now apparently it's even slightly missing when driving, although the engine is running perfectly smoothly otherwise.
The garage are a Saab specialist so they've been using a donor car to swap parts thank god, but nothing has worked. From memory they've replaced
Coils and plugs
Tested injectors
Earth points
All temperature and ECU sensors
Throttle body
Fuel rail
EVAC valve
And I think there were a few other bits I've forgotten. Basically everything mechanical has been tested. The only thing they haven't been able to test is the ECU, which they think is the only thing it can be now. Apparently they've never seen this problem, nor has anyone else they've contacted.
So I'm in need of either someone who can test the ECU for faults, or just get a new one!
Any help would be hugely appreciated!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:13 pm
Posts: 2032
Location: Peterborough UK
Car Model: 9-5 Aero 2001,1.9TID x 2
There are two issues which crop up giving similar symptoms either soft valve problems or indeed the T8 ECU.
So has a compression check been done to eliminate the possible valve issue?
https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/show ... p?t=329066

If the T8 needs replacing its not too hard a job....

Look at the videos (part 1 and 2) in the link below
https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/show ... p?t=719528


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:03 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:37 pm
Posts: 10
Car Model: 93 1.8t Sportwagon T.Edition
It's had a compression test done and everything was fine apparently. They're scratching their heads now so if it isn't ECU then who knows what's wrong with it. How close do the numbers on a second hand ECU have to be for it to be compatable?

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 04, 2015 8:25 am
Posts: 237
Location: Near Blackpool. No Near Fleetwood
Car Model: 9-3 Aero SS (Stage 1)
Any ECU can be used from a 2003 up. However using a 2003-2006/7 ECU will require MCP programming with a 2008+ file as well as the specific binary for your car. If you get a 2008+ ECU only the specific binary needs programming. Your Saab specialist may not know this. A friend of mine had a 2005 swapped into a 2008, and it caused all kinds of problems, as Saab specialist didn’t know about the MCP side to the ECU.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:12 pm 
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Location: Peterborough UK
Car Model: 9-5 Aero 2001,1.9TID x 2
They dont if you follow the cloning procedure.
Part numbers from the EPC going the Tech2 route.
Image


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:39 pm 
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Location: Peterborough UK
Car Model: 9-5 Aero 2001,1.9TID x 2
Do you have a list of the error codes?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:26 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:37 pm
Posts: 10
Car Model: 93 1.8t Sportwagon T.Edition
Well that's interesting, the guys at the garage seem to think that they all have different pin patterns for each model and year, which i did think was pretty weird. So to re programme a 2008 onward ECU all i need is the code from the original? I have a bit of know how mechanically but when it comes to electrical stuff I'm fairly lost!

The only error code it's throwing up is random/multiple misfire detected (P0300). I'll give them a ring or a visit tomorrow and direct them here and see what they have to say. Two and a half months is far too long to be without your car!

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:13 pm
Posts: 2032
Location: Peterborough UK
Car Model: 9-5 Aero 2001,1.9TID x 2
The coils are genuine parts?...lots of issues with aftermarket ones.
https://www.saabcentral.com/forums/show ... p?t=535961

Typically if the ECU is bad you get a lot more codes than basic misfire codes...they have a Tech2?
Do they get misfires for each coil?
Have they moved the coils around to see if the codes change?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:48 am 
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:37 pm
Posts: 10
Car Model: 93 1.8t Sportwagon T.Edition
Right, sorry I haven't responded sooner! The ECU was cloned but has had no effect. Coils are high quality (so I'm told) and have been extensively checked, fuel rail along with every other ignition part has been replaced, and nothing. The only thing I can assume is that their compression test was faulty or gave an incorrect reading and one or more of the inlet valves are sticking. This is really starting to irritate me now.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 12:25 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:39 am
Posts: 40301
Location: SW Herts
Car Model: 9-5 Aero est. 9-3 Carlsson
Ignition Module? All the coils are fed through that.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:44 pm 
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Car Model: 93 1.8t Sportwagon T.Edition
Well there's been somewhat of a development. When the compression test was done, which I believe was the FIRST thing they tried after plugs and coils, they didn't let the car cool down. So they did another test today from cold, and as if by magic, low pressure in cyclinder two.

But I'm remaining calm and collected......

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:24 pm
Posts: 6763
Location: Wigan, Lancashire
Car Model: 9000 Anni, 9-5s by the score
Which is not what I'd be being.
Fingers crossed this means it gets sorted.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:43 pm 
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Full Pressure Turbo
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:22 pm
Posts: 715
Location: East Dorset
Car Model: 9-5 9-3SSx2 Sonett T16S 9000
I missed this the first time around.

I would have said inlet valves, as I did this on our 2009 vert. Cyl 1 will be goosed as well. They didn't do the test properly!

The valves stick in the guides, make sure they do guides as well. You probably only need inlet, exhaust will be fine.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:59 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:41 am
Posts: 1872
Location: Manchester
Car Model: MY 07 9-3 SC Vector
I thought the inlet value issue was only on the 57 plate - 10 plate facelift B207R engine not the B207E/L... How's the h/g?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:37 pm
Posts: 10
Car Model: 93 1.8t Sportwagon T.Edition
As of this afternoon they have the head off and are currently checking all valves for leaks and wear issues. I've requested new valves and apparently they think they can hone the guides. But at least it's finally some progress!!!

They haven't said anything about the gasket so far so I'm assuming it was fine, but I think they're replacing it anyway. Now I'm wondering whether it's worth having the timing chain while they're at it....

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:41 am
Posts: 1872
Location: Manchester
Car Model: MY 07 9-3 SC Vector
It's the tensioner which usually goes but while you're there, you may as well if you like the car and intend on keeping it. What's the mileage?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 5:22 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:37 pm
Posts: 10
Car Model: 93 1.8t Sportwagon T.Edition
I intend to keep it indefinitely, so it's on my to do list. It's done 93k, so it probably makes sense to do it. I suppose the thing I can take from all this though is that every part of my ignition system and my ECU are working perfectly.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 11:10 am 
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 9:05 pm
Posts: 133
Car Model: 9-3 Vector 1.8t
Is the inlet valve guide an issue for just the 1.8t and 2.0t or the 2.0T/Aero as well? Looking at soft top later in year preferably facelifted, not a lot of 1.8t s around which would be my preference(for a Noobtune) by quite a number of Aeros


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:41 am
Posts: 1872
Location: Manchester
Car Model: MY 07 9-3 SC Vector
I understood from previous (old) threads that it was just the 2.0T Aeros and not the 1.8t/2.0t....but stand to be corrected! They used softened ones and a different cam profile on the 57 plates Aeros onwards. I thought the Biopower valves were used to remedy.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:22 pm
Posts: 715
Location: East Dorset
Car Model: 9-5 9-3SSx2 Sonett T16S 9000
I did this job on a 1.8t. Apparently there are not many L series, it seems to be more of a problem on E and R engines.

They had a bad batch of valves which were not as hard as they should have been. You are correct that the profile on the cam is what is reputed to damage them but usually from about 60k onwards. The valves I got for mine were just standard petrol ones, but the machine shop guys said the part number is a 2010 onwards number.

Valve guides must be done. Again my machining guys said the damage to the end of the guide was visible once the valve was out and would eventually leak oil or damage the new valve.


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