UKSaabs

THE site for UK Saab people!
It is currently Mon May 20, 2019 7:27 pm

All times are UTC



Forum rules


When you put a new thread up in the Workshop please put your car's year and model in the thread title, along with just a brief indicator of the problem.

Car Year - Car Model: Brief description of issue. EXAMPLE- 1999 9-3. Problems starting when hot.

Please also add as much information as you can about the problem, to your post.

This will help us to help you, without having to ask basic details such as what car you have.


Threads with non-compliant titles will be moved to The Pit Lane (in which no replies can be posted, but the OP can edit the thread - upon which the thread will be released to the workshop forum)

Nb. Generic thread titles for truly generic issues that genuinely are not model or variant specific (such as "how do I change the spring in an forge wastegate actuator") are acceptable

**The first 5 posts for new users require individual moderator approval (which they will only get it if they are in line the rules of the forum). Please be patient and allow time for that to happen, and avoid duplicate postings.**



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:35 pm 
Offline
Active user
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:44 pm
Posts: 139
Location: North Lincolnshire
Car Model: '05 9-5 2.2Tid Vector Wagon
Hi guys.

Just wondering if anyone has any insight into a strange problem my '05 9-5 Vector has been afflicted with. The car has been stood since 2013, with a brief period of use in 2015/16. It was left to stand outside in the elements, next to a main road (dirty main road), until I rescued it from being sent to the crusher - literally just another few days and it would have been gone they told me!

But I bought it, had it flat bedded down to a local garage and have had it recommissioned at high cost and have been running it the last week and covered 140 miles so far. When I picked it up from the garage the first thing I noticed was the Navigation head unit wouldn't switch to any source other than telephone and wouldn't turn off, and SID was saying "telephone". Then I noticed that the passenger foot well courtesy light wasn't going out, then I noticed that the tailgate ajar warning won't go out and the tailgate latch goes crazy when I pull away.

Since then, I have managed to get the head unit to power up and work by disconnecting the telephone power lead from the rear of the unit, but now that it is working I immediately noticed that the driver's door speaker isn't working (the garage tells me that it all was working fine before as they were actually listening to the stereo in it the day before).

So the faults are....

* Passenger foot well courtesy light won't go out at any time other than when the whole interior light system times out - with the exception of this, this one light is permanently on.
* Driver's door speaker not working as if not connected.
* If I reconnect the telephone lead, the head unit and SID power on and become stuck on telephone (permanently live just like the foot well light and only goes off when the whole car times out), and there is nothing I can do with it, it will not stitch to any other source.
* Tailgate ajar warning on all the time the engine is running, and the latch goes crazy every time I pull away (making slow traffic situations extremely annoying), I suspect a faulty latch in some way, either a micro switch as I've had that problem with a couple of other cars before, or the latch itself, as it opens/closes, lock/unlocks no problem - just the car thinks it's always open but it isn't.
* I also now have a 'Theft system failure' warning from SID most times I start the engine. The car locks/unlocks and starts no problem, and the alarm armed light has a constant steady single flash when armed.

I was thinking that maybe the canBUS circuit is somehow unhappy at suddenly being put into regular use after years of being stood inactive. A few guys have told me that this isn't an uncommon problem, and that generally they do settle down after some time and regular use, but, after a week and 140 miles, it's all still unhappy and the problems persist.

So if anyone has any ideas, hints, tips or advice I would very much appreciate it??

ALSO, new info just added on 17/02 - I forgot to mention before, there is one more electrical problem which is the night panel. When I hit the button, all but the speedometer shuts off all perfectly as it should but, when I hit the button to come back out of night mode, it all stays shut off until I switch engine, which then resets it and all the instruments come back on again.

Thank you,
Best regards,
Mike.

_________________
The 9-5 is definitely the right Saab!


Last edited by drewerz01 on Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 9:26 am 
Offline
Active user

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:39 pm
Posts: 38
Car Model: Saab 9-5 * 2 & Saab 9-3
Well this ones gonna be interesting isn't it!

With a problem like this, I would probably start by trying to work out how all of these systems are related but we mustn't overlook the possibility that you have more than 1 problem especially as the car has been sat for a long time as moisture/rodents could have got into wiring.

For starters, does it actually say "Theft system Failure" or does it say "Service Theft Alarm"?

The passenger footwell and tailgate ajar/latch going crazy could all be related to the DICE unit as I believe it controls all of these items.

The Drivers door speaker could just be a dead speaker, but I believe that the DICE unit is located under steering wheel, mounted to the right-hand side of the car. Which is probably where the wiring for door speaker also runs. So you may have an issue with wiring/corrosion there.

As for the telephone fault - I haven't got a clue I`m afraid.


Hope this is at least of some help to you.

Frank.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:03 am 
Offline
UKS Encyclopædia G-M
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:39 am
Posts: 40301
Location: SW Herts
Car Model: 9-5 Aero est. 9-3 Carlsson
Does the car have a working phone kit? Or a non-working one? The usual cause of the Telephone message and a silent radio is a badly removed phone kit.

The Telephone message is triggered by the yellow mute wire from the audio being earthed. A phone kit switches this to earth when a call is in progress. It is often earthed when a phone kit is badly removed and the wires are just cut, leaving bare ends to touch metal.

If it’s happening when you have a phone kit installed, and the yellow wire isn’t chafed and earthing itself, the phone kit is faulty.

_________________
.
.
.
.
Everything will be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 12:56 pm 
Offline
Active user

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:39 pm
Posts: 38
Car Model: Saab 9-5 * 2 & Saab 9-3
Might also be worth checking the G40 & G42 ground points on either side of the dash. According to WIS G40 (Passenger side) is used by the audio system and G42 (Driver Side) is used by DICE.


Frank.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:08 pm 
Offline
Active user
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:44 pm
Posts: 139
Location: North Lincolnshire
Car Model: '05 9-5 2.2Tid Vector Wagon
captainfrank wrote:
Well this ones gonna be interesting isn't it!

With a problem like this, I would probably start by trying to work out how all of these systems are related but we mustn't overlook the possibility that you have more than 1 problem especially as the car has been sat for a long time as moisture/rodents could have got into wiring.

For starters, does it actually say "Theft system Failure" or does it say "Service Theft Alarm"?

The passenger footwell and tailgate ajar/latch going crazy could all be related to the DICE unit as I believe it controls all of these items.

The Drivers door speaker could just be a dead speaker, but I believe that the DICE unit is located under steering wheel, mounted to the right-hand side of the car. Which is probably where the wiring for door speaker also runs. So you may have an issue with wiring/corrosion there.

As for the telephone fault - I haven't got a clue I`m afraid.


Hope this is at least of some help to you.

Frank.

Hi Frank. Thanks for you reply and insight.

Yes, the car does actually give a Theft system failure warning (see image), which is easily cleared but then comes back on each time engine is started. However the car does lock/unlock, starts and runs fine, and the armed indicator light on the dash does have the slow and steady single flash as it's supposed to, which (from what I know of) would suggest no actual fault??

Also, there is something else, another minor fault, which I omitted from the first post, which is that if I hit the 'Night Panel' button, everything but the speedometer shuts off as it should with no problems, but then it all stays shut off when I hit the button again, and it all stays shut off until after I've shut the engine off and come to start up again next time.

I did actually check the DICE fuses under the bonnet (as I also did with all the other fuses - just to be sure), but they all were fine except for a little oxidization on the terminals, which I clean up a little and oiled with WD40 - but no difference. This particular DICE unit has the top cover missing though I noticed, so I must look at replacing it. But a faulty unit, certainly sounds as though it could be the cause.

The speaker, I don't actually know as I haven't removed the door panel to check. But the garage did tell me that they heard it all working, that's all I know. However, I will admit that it's entirely possible and maybe even likely, that they won't have checked each individual speaker, thus it's likely that when they heard the radio in the car, it was assumed that all speakers were working.
So I will inspect the speaker at my next opportunity, which will likely be next weekend now.

When I was inspecting the fuses, I noted that all of the cables appear clean and undamaged (that I could see), and the earth leads also appeared to be clean and undamaged. There certainly appears to be absolutely no sign of rodent activity inside the car at all, if this were the case I would have seen it, as we have been all through the car to valet it. There were no turds, no chewed carpet anywhere or anything like the typical rodent activity you might expect.

It is quite bizarre, all this, but it's starting to drive me mad a bit to be honest...

Image

Cheers,
Mike.

_________________
The 9-5 is definitely the right Saab!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:18 pm 
Offline
Active user
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:44 pm
Posts: 139
Location: North Lincolnshire
Car Model: '05 9-5 2.2Tid Vector Wagon
sgould wrote:
Does the car have a working phone kit? Or a non-working one? The usual cause of the Telephone message and a silent radio is a badly removed phone kit.

The Telephone message is triggered by the yellow mute wire from the audio being earthed. A phone kit switches this to earth when a call is in progress. It is often earthed when a phone kit is badly removed and the wires are just cut, leaving bare ends to touch metal.

If it’s happening when you have a phone kit installed, and the yellow wire isn’t chafed and earthing itself, the phone kit is faulty.

Hi Si. I don't think it does actually have the phone system installed. There is a mic hidden up behind the rear view mirror, but no other indication of a phone system. But this Nav head unit is completely different to the older AS3 head unit I had in my old '02 Aero, which had a Nokia hands free bluetooth phone system installed, which I removed myself (correctly - as it was driving me mad).

I don't actually want a phone system in any way, I'm not at all interested in that so I wouldn't be interested in repairing it if it's faulty. But I certainly don't want it to be affecting the use of the head unit.

I have deliberately left the head unit just proud of the dash fascia panel (as it was an utter pig to get out - In fact I've never struggled so much to get a head unit out in more than twenty year of driving), as I expected to have to frequently pull it back out to check this or that if any had any questions to help me figure the problem out.

Cheers,
Mike.

_________________
The 9-5 is definitely the right Saab!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:21 pm 
Offline
Active user
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:44 pm
Posts: 139
Location: North Lincolnshire
Car Model: '05 9-5 2.2Tid Vector Wagon
captainfrank wrote:
Might also be worth checking the G40 & G42 ground points on either side of the dash. According to WIS G40 (Passenger side) is used by the audio system and G42 (Driver Side) is used by DICE.


Frank.

Hi Frank.

I apologise for being a bit dim here but, I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by WIS? G40 & G42, I presume are ground points?

Cheers,
Mike.

_________________
The 9-5 is definitely the right Saab!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2019 3:44 pm 
Offline
Active user

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:39 pm
Posts: 38
Car Model: Saab 9-5 * 2 & Saab 9-3
drewerz01 wrote:
captainfrank wrote:
Might also be worth checking the G40 & G42 ground points on either side of the dash. According to WIS G40 (Passenger side) is used by the audio system and G42 (Driver Side) is used by DICE.


Frank.

Hi Frank.

I apologise for being a bit dim here but, I'm afraid I don't know what you mean by WIS? G40 & G42, I presume are ground points?

Cheers,
Mike.


Workshop Information system. It's the SAAB Bible.

There are downloads all over the internet by some guy called CaptainFrank. It's a bit complicated by it's fully of usefully info.


Frank.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 10:39 am 
Offline
Active user
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:44 pm
Posts: 139
Location: North Lincolnshire
Car Model: '05 9-5 2.2Tid Vector Wagon
Quick update....

I've seemingly fixed all but one of the above problems - some of them by pure chance, and I still don't exactly know how I've done it! The last remaining electrical problem is the driver's door speaker still isn't working, which I still haven't had the opportunity to get the door card off to inspect yet, although I have popped the grill off to check that there was actually a speaker fitted (which there is). So I will inspect when I get the chance.

But for now though....

I removed the factory Navigation head unit, which was utter carp, and replaced with a receiver which I previously had installed in my old '02 Aero a year or so ago, a couple of threads here about how I did it, which also contain help and advice from other UKS guys, if anyone is interested... viewtopic.php?f=4&t=195204 ...... and ...... viewtopic.php?f=4&t=194671

This job was tricky and took around three hours to do start-finish, and I had a lot of tech help from a guy on UKS with it to help me understand it a lot more, but in doing this, I found that the car had previously been fitted with a carp Nokia hands free bluetooth thing at some point, and although it was plugged into the car's harness via the correct plug, the rest of the wiring, as I found (see image below) was a mess, no doubt not helped by the heater matrix bursting and flooding it, but even so, this was clearly a terribly job and I tracked all the wiring back and properly removed all of it....

Image

But in doing all of this, my Night Panel button somehow now works perfectly as it should! Clearly was somehow being affected by either the OEM head unit or the telephone thing... Obviously the new head unit is far superior and, bar one single speaker, all works perfectly, and with the phone system thing now removed, there is no issue with the factory telephone line thing either.

The passenger foot well light.... Well, there was a tricky one! As nothing I did, advised to check, or replaced, made any difference at all. All the fuses were fine, all the earths were fine, all the dodgy wiring under the dash had been sorted out and removed (which I was hoping was the cause of it, but it wasn't), after a few guys had mentioned and advised, I even sourced and fitted a replacement DICE unit, but that light still would not go out!

As a last ditch effort, having drawn blanks everywhere else, I joined the 'Saab 9-5 (1997-2012) Owner's Group' on Facebook and asked the question, and almost immediately a guy on there replied with a suggestion for a possible cause which I still find so laughably obvious I can't talk about it. But as this may help someone else who's having the same problem, it's only right and fair that I share the knowledge here...

I tried his suggestion right away and he was absolutely right, that was the cause!

What he said was, "I bet the power cables for the foot well light and the glove box are the wrong way round. Try switching them round and see if that works as the same thing happened to me a few years ago!"...

Image

Low and behold, that was exactly what had happened! Whomever it was who had last worked on it, some glands penis, had mixed the power cables up! .... I can't help but giggle every time I think of it now, it's so obvious! I was taking the dash apart, changing DICE unit's and pulling fuses and relays, even inquiring about TechII sessions to try to solve it, and all the time it was a simple case of someone getting the power cables mixed up somehow!

Never underestimate or disregard the power of Facebook! If it hadn't been for that guy on that Saab 9-5 owners group, I would have never known, would have never even thought to check such an obvious thing, and this little light problem would have continued to torment me forever! So, naturally I replied to him with a large thank you and offer of beer tokens if we ever meet!

But, now having switched the cables round the proper way, everything is now perfect and the foot well light, and the glove box light for that matter, are now working perfectly as they should - So now that that is all sorted, I've replaced all the interior courtesy lights with my gorgeous Blue LED bulbs, which I had in my old Aero, so I'm much happier now!

Just that speaker to investigate now! Well, and the random (very) theft system failure warning, of which I believe I know the cause, and will sort out another time.

I hope this may help someone in the future. It's always important I feel, to share information and knowledge, help and advice to keep our beloved Saabs going and working perfectly as long as we can!

Best regards,
Mike.

_________________
The 9-5 is definitely the right Saab!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 11:57 am 
Offline
UKS Addict

Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:31 am
Posts: 4544
Location: Bucks
Car Model: Saab NG 9-5 Aero
Well done. The Nokia Bluetooth kit was actually pretty good, if it was installed properly. Clearly yours wasn't!

I would love to know what it is about WD40 that makes people think it is a cure all, it isn't!

For oxidised electrical terminals I recommend switch cleaner, it does the job properly and evaporates, something WD40 won't do quickly. It does lots of things but it isn't a substitute for the correct material, be that lubricant, cleaner or solvent.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Ibsaab333 and 12 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

follow UKSaabs on Twitter



UKSaabs silhouette logo images by Mark Green www.greenphotos.com
"subsilver2" slightly bodged by UKSaabs for our own use.

:: Disclaimer ::
Comments posted here are the views of their individual authors and are not necessarily shared by the owners of this Web site.
Authors assume all responsibility for comments posted here.

UKSaabs The biggest and best privately owned UK based independent Saab forum for all SAAB enthusiasts.
Whilst we encourage our users to support our advertisers the site wishes to remain independent and therefore does not endorse any particular advertiser(s)
UKSaabs is not affiliated with Saab Cars UK or Saab Automobile AB