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 Post subject: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:44 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:49 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Dorking Surrey
Car Model: 99 turbo
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My newly acquired 99Turbo runs hot but doesn’t overheat it’s been many years since my last Turbo so I have a few questions I hope you can help me on .
It’s runs part way between normal and hot on the gauge but mainly towards the upper end .
It has Evans waterless coolant I’ve been told this can make it run hotter? Is that correct.
I have spotlights fitted could they be restricting airflow ?
Should I change the stat and put a 82 dg one in ?
Is the airflow to the oil cooler restricted by the Saab sport bodykit as the standard front spoiler has a much larger opening .
Is it worth investing in a alloy radiator with a larger capacity , has anybody done that and are they available ?
The electric fan is working ok and cuts on and off but does stay on most of the time.

Any thoughts .


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:50 am 
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Light Pressure Turbo

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:52 am
Posts: 388
Location: Cleveland North East
Car Model: 99T
Lovely looking car !

Does air flow kit restrict oil cooler Flow ?

In the standard set up the oblong openings are reduced down by plastic connectors that have an outlet that is approx 2 1/2" on the battery side but not sure on oil cooler side ? perhaps someone else knows ?

the vents in your air flow kit look a little undersized than standard set up but not by much

cant comment on foglights but they are directly in the main water rad airflow. Try taking them off and see if it makes a differance ?


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:55 am 
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Barrelling Along
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Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:13 pm
Posts: 20371
Location: Maidstone
Car Model: 9-5 Aero
Roymck wrote:
Attachment:
75204B9B-F7CE-4594-9AAB-D78756EE3121.jpeg
My newly acquired 99Turbo runs hot but doesn’t overheat it’s been many years since my last Turbo so I have a few questions I hope you can help me on .
It’s runs part way between normal and hot on the gauge but mainly towards the upper end .
It has Evans waterless coolant I’ve been told this can make it run hotter? Is that correct.


Lovely looking car 8)
Yes, Evans coolant although it has a much higher boiling point than ethylene glycol/water mix has a lower specific heat capacity, thus it can shift less heat around the engine. It is also more viscous, and thus moves more slowly.


Quote:
I have spotlights fitted could they be restricting airflow ?

They could be yes. Is it easy to temporarily remove them and see if there is a difference?


Quote:
Should I change the stat and put a 82 dg one in ?

Nope, this doesn't fix the problem in any way. The car may take longer to reach its temp but it will still get there.


Quote:
Is the airflow to the oil cooler restricted by the Saab sport bodykit as the standard front spoiler has a much larger opening.
Sorry, pass.


Quote:
Is it worth investing in a alloy radiator with a larger capacity , has anybody done that and are they available ?
The electric fan is working ok and cuts on and off but does stay on most of the time.

Any thoughts .

Might be. I don't know if the rad from a c900 will fit? Do88 do a high performance alloy rad for the c900. Either that or you would need a custom creation.

I would personally ditch the Evans and go back to water and ethylene glycol with a good flush out of the whole cooling system. I would also be considering heat wrapping the exhaust manifold and downpipe.
For further examples of heat management, you could check out the threads by BIRDIEMANGO and 99 EMS for what they have done with their modified cars.

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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 12:54 pm 
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Full Pressure Turbo
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Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:10 am
Posts: 727
Location: Longton
Firstly, how old and what sort of condition is the radiator in? If the fins are at all loose then it is past its best and should be replaced.

The cooling on the 99T is "sufficient" when in good condition, not sure of the effect of the Evans on an otherwise standard system, but anything that reduces the ability of the system to remove heat has the potential to move the balance of the system towards insufficient.

When driving in free-flowing traffic, I would expect the gauge to sit close to "normal" - if it is creeping up towards the red, maybe try removing the spot lights as they will have some effect at deflecting air flow. As said the thermostat should have no effect on this - provided that it is opening fully and not slightly sticky.

As soon as the speed drops, I would expect the gauge to rise and the fan to cut in - bear in mind that the gauge isn't "dumbed down" like most moderns, so it reflects every movement in coolant temperature. On a warm day, in slow moving traffic, I would expect it to cycle on the fan between just over normal and about 2/3 of the way up the gauge.

Obviously factors like the internal resistance / deterioration of the temp sender and the temperature at which the fan switch is operating will affect where exactly the needle points and how far it travels.

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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:32 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:49 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Dorking Surrey
Car Model: 99 turbo
Reading up about it Evans waterless coolant has a few people that say they would not use it . As Rich says if it’s more viscous and less able to absorb heat then that might be an issue . Think I might change the T stat just in case it’s faulty or damaged and dump the coolant and add water and bluecol antifreeze .
The rad itself looks fine but you never know what the internal waterways are like . As regards fan operation as I said it is on most of the time so it is running hot !
Any other thoughts ?


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2018 4:36 pm
Posts: 237
Location: Orpington, Kent
Car Model: 1987 SAAB 900i
Only one other thought comes to mind, (and I'm willing to be shot down in flames for suggesting it :) ). A lean mixture can cause an engine to run hotter. I would say that it's really unlikely as you haven't mentioned any other symptoms of a mixture that is too lean, also there are far more likely causes in your list above.
Removing the spotlights would be an easy experiment to try.
The Evans stuff sounds like a panacea for older cars, but the downsides are many and varied. Some people report that it's revitalised their classic car, whilst resurrecting long dead relatives and simultaneously finding a solution for world peace. Others have said that it was a pest that cost a lot (for what it was) and a split hose or a new rad meant it piddled into the cracks on their driveway.
Once thing I would want to know (and everyone else following this thread as well I suspect) is how you get on. Let us know!

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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:05 pm 
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UKS Addict

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:51 pm
Posts: 2689
Location: Cheshire
Car Model: Saab 900 and 99
[/quote]My newly acquired 99Turbo runs hot but doesn’t overheat it’s been many years since my last Turbo so I have a few questions I hope you can help me on .
It’s runs part way between normal and hot on the gauge but mainly towards the upper end .
It has Evans waterless coolant I’ve been told this can make it run hotter? Is that correct.
I have spotlights fitted could they be restricting airflow ?
Should I change the stat and put a 82 dg one in ?
Is the airflow to the oil cooler restricted by the Saab sport bodykit as the standard front spoiler has a much larger opening .
Is it worth investing in a alloy radiator with a larger capacity , has anybody done that and are they available ?
The electric fan is working ok and cuts on and off but does stay on most of the time.

Any thoughts .[/quote]

I would try an engine flush and use regular coolant, like you have suggested and see how you go on. Change one thing at a time!!
Then remove the spots.
If you have or have access to a thermal camera I would give it a go, it will show up dead areas in your radiator. I can do this for you, where are you located?
Changing your radiator for a larger alloy one will not help and will just cost you more money. The original rad has copper tanks etc and is more thermal efficient. If you radiator is of the old type (less efficient fins) it can be re-cored for about £120 ish, with a modern core and better finnage....I think I have just invented a new word :).

Another good modification is to alter the passenger side radiator hose, to the bottom of the radiator, like on a 900 (that is why they altered it!) this will then force more coolant across the whole of the core and not just accross the top, you will need another top pipe to do this, the rad shop may have or you can butcher an old radiator, then you will need a 900 hose to attach to couple it all up. Also bear in mind you may need an alloy header tank with a small nipple to come off the top of the rad, otherwise you will get a small dead spot, just where you fan cut-in switch is situated.

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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:19 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:49 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Dorking Surrey
Car Model: 99 turbo
Thanks for the offer about using a thermal camera , unfortunately I am down south so too far away .
Going to change the coolant and check stat , it may be sticking then try a run out again.
Will look at the Rad modification but thoughts are running hot is not a inherent 99 Turbo problem is it so it must be something solvable , but good to know that it could be improved .

Thanks all , keeps the tips coming


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:49 am 
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Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 8:34 pm
Posts: 45
Car Model: Saab 99 Turbo
Another good modification is to alter the passenger side radiator hose, to the bottom of the radiator, like on a 900 (that is why they altered it!) this will then force more coolant across the whole of the core and not just accross the top, you will need another top pipe to do this, the rad shop may have or you can butcher an old radiator, then you will need a 900 hose to attach to couple it all up. Also bear in mind you may need an alloy header tank with a small nipple to come off the top of the rad, otherwise you will get a small dead spot, just where you fan cut-in switch is situated.[/quote]



I have the above setup on my 99T 1979 with the original rad being modified, it works well and helps with cooling efficiency and doesn't look too bad originality wise. The only bit of the engine bay you have to cut up is the radiator side mount you have to take a middle slip out to make room for the new inlet as you cant do it from the very bottom of the raditator without bigger mods.

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 6:17 pm 
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UKS Addict

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:51 pm
Posts: 2689
Location: Cheshire
Car Model: Saab 900 and 99
[/quote]I have the above setup on my 99T 1979 with the original rad being modified, it works well and helps with cooling efficiency and doesn't look too bad originality wise. The only bit of the engine bay you have to cut up is the radiator side mount you have to take a middle slip out to make room for the new inlet as you cant do it from the very bottom of the raditator without bigger mods.

Cheers[/quote]

It appears you have put the hose inlet on the side of the tank, like the original top position? The pipe position needs to be facing into the engine bay, just like on the other side at the top, this eliminates the need for any radiator bracket modifications.

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900i '87
99 '83 Turbo Killer
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Lancer EVO 6.5 TME '00 in red
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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:49 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Dorking Surrey
Car Model: 99 turbo
Any pictures of the radiator mods ?


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 12:23 pm
Posts: 2085
Location: London & Suffolk
Car Model: Saab 99 Turbo
Very interesting reading all the suggestions above and I will certainly look into the radiator modification when I next work on mine.

One more (long term perhaps) idea is to create more room/airflow in the engine bay by relocating the battery to the boot. I've done this on mine and works very well.

Keep us informed!

Peter

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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:36 pm 
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UKS Addict

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:51 pm
Posts: 2689
Location: Cheshire
Car Model: Saab 900 and 99
The lower hose connection has been taken from an old radiator, it is actually a top hose connection. It is perfect for this mod because it is narrow enough to be fitted on the rear of the tank.
I have opted for an inline thermostat switch for the twin radiator fans. If you want to use the original t/stat fan switch you will need to fit a vent hose to the top of the radiator (like on a 900) and run it to a custom alloy header tank, otherwise you will get a small deadspot in that part of the radiator, this fills with air around the t/stat switch.


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900i '87
99 '83 Turbo Killer
99 EMS 77
Lancer EVO 6.5 TME '00 in red
Lancer EVO 6.5 TME '00 in black
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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 2:48 pm 
Are you sure the gauge reads correctly? I would first check the correct type sender is fitted, clean the connection between the sender and the wire, and if that doesn't help fit a new sender.


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2019 10:04 pm 
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Full Pressure Turbo

Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:26 pm
Posts: 606
With this radiator modification it will a bit different on B20 (99 turbo) as the heater valve circuit is plumbed into this hose.

I accept the logic of doing this mod but would just say that both my original 99 turbo and 99T16 have no overheating problems and with 82 degree thermostats the temp gauges read just below the halfway 'normal' mark while driving.
Both cars have good radiators recored some years ago with 'high efficiency' cores.


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:01 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:51 pm
Posts: 2689
Location: Cheshire
Car Model: Saab 900 and 99
99 Pete wrote:
With this radiator modification it will a bit different on B20 (99 turbo) as the heater valve circuit is plumbed into this hose.


I am not sure which car you are looking at, but this hose comes off the front of the expansion tank, the same as on a B or H series 8v. You may have to be a little more creative at the lower end of the hose on a car still running k-jet, but it's no big deal.

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99 '83 Turbo Killer
99 EMS 77
Lancer EVO 6.5 TME '00 in red
Lancer EVO 6.5 TME '00 in black


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:07 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:51 pm
Posts: 2689
Location: Cheshire
Car Model: Saab 900 and 99
99 Pete wrote:
I accept the logic of doing this mod but would just say that both my original 99 turbo and 99T16 have no overheating problems and with 82 degree thermostats the temp gauges read just below the halfway 'normal' mark while driving.
Both cars have good radiators recored some years ago with 'high efficiency' cores.


All things being equal, any standard car should not overheat on its original cooling system, although some are at their upper end of heat dissapation efficiency on very hot days.

My 99 is not standard and puts out a lot more power than a standard 99T and it redlines at just over 8k rpm, any little demon cooling tweaks at this level are very welcome.

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900i '87
99 '83 Turbo Killer
99 EMS 77
Lancer EVO 6.5 TME '00 in red
Lancer EVO 6.5 TME '00 in black


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:29 am 
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Light Pressure Turbo

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:52 am
Posts: 388
Location: Cleveland North East
Car Model: 99T
it redlines at just over 8k rpm........ Thats gotta sound sweet

I have Audi coupe Quattro 5 zlinder 20 v that revs to 7k and that sounds unbelievable. so turbo turbo at 8k :D

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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:03 am 
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Full Pressure Turbo

Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:26 pm
Posts: 606
99 EMS wrote:
99 Pete wrote:
With this radiator modification it will a bit different on B20 (99 turbo) as the heater valve circuit is plumbed into this hose.


I am not sure which car you are looking at, but this hose comes off the front of the expansion tank, the same as on a B or H series 8v. You may have to be a little more creative at the lower end of the hose on a car still running k-jet, but it's no big deal.

Ok, so you are still running the rad outlet into the front of the header tank. I misunderstood and thought it was connected directly to the water pump inlet which is how the 900 is.


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:16 am 
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UKS Addict

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:51 pm
Posts: 2689
Location: Cheshire
Car Model: Saab 900 and 99
99 Pete wrote:
99 EMS wrote:
99 Pete wrote:
With this radiator modification it will a bit different on B20 (99 turbo) as the heater valve circuit is plumbed into this hose.


I am not sure which car you are looking at, but this hose comes off the front of the expansion tank, the same as on a B or H series 8v. You may have to be a little more creative at the lower end of the hose on a car still running k-jet, but it's no big deal.

Ok, so you are still running the rad outlet into the front of the header tank. I misunderstood and thought it was connected directly to the water pump inlet which is how the 900 is.


Yes, the 900 is different, the hose goes under the manifold.

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99 '83 Turbo Killer
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Lancer EVO 6.5 TME '00 in red
Lancer EVO 6.5 TME '00 in black


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