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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:03 pm 
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According to the headlines in todays Classic Car Weekly, he European Court of Justice has ruled that all vehicles on SORN will need to be insured at all times, even if dismantled for repair, only kept on private ground etc. Apparently the government are not happy, but......

This will have a massive implication in he old car world if implemented.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:09 pm 
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Have to say when i had the 9000 SORN on drive whilst i was working on it i retained fire and theft insurance for a minimal cost. Thin end of the wedge though.....

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:36 pm 
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How revelant is that ruling given we we are leaving European Union.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:19 pm 
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Thank god for brexit, these morons in Brussels haven't got a clue about real peoples lives


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:23 pm 
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SaabnScotland wrote:
How revelant is that ruling given we we are leaving European Union.


Old legislation and reading up on it, it clashes with localised laws in most countries.
The best bit about it? it all came about thanks to insurers trying to get out of paying! someone who got hit by a tractor while at work, but not on the road.

However, nowhere does it mention SORN motors, and reports claim all sorts.


The only thing that would be certain, is motors that are road legal, the insurance will still have to cough up if they have an crash off road.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:28 pm 
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For your perusal! :)

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/579383/motor-insurance-vnuk-judgement-impact-assessment.pdf

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:58 pm 
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TFatC wrote:
According to the headlines in todays Classic Car Weekly, he European Court of Justice has ruled that all vehicles on SORN will need to be insured at all times, even if dismantled for repair, only kept on private ground etc.

The document linked above clearly falsifies this. The European Court judgement requires that vehicles be insured when used. If SORNed vehicles are not used (parked off the road or dismantled), the judgement does not require them to be insured. Only when they are used off the road, they would have to be insured.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:34 pm 
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The problem is how do you proove that a vehicle on SORN is not heing used? They aren't going to start doing spot checks on SORN vehicles to make sure that they are not capable of being used.

And what about vehicles are only being used for part of a year. Its perfectly roadworthy, but not being used at the moment.

It's not an easy thing to legislate for.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:54 pm 
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Surely it is up to the authorities to prove it is?

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:55 pm 
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When I SORN a car. That is it. No on the road ever again.

Mainly due to missing certain on the road things that cars need to move. :D

They can check if they like.

Espresso's tax is up at the end of this month. I might just SORN her as well. Fillup the close with 9-5's.

It will certainly save a lot of graft. Check Gearbox Light has just sparked up..........

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:05 pm 
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beardydave wrote:
The problem is how do you proove that a vehicle on SORN is not heing used? They aren't going to start doing spot checks on SORN vehicles to make sure that they are not capable of being used.

How do you currently prove it is not being used on the road?

It doesn't have to be "not capable" of being used. Just not being used. Can be parked in a garage in a perfectly usable state.

If they catch you driving an uninsured vehicle, you'll be in trouble. That's all.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:18 pm 
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And another thing, IF I SORN Espresso (taxed, insured, MOT etc) This would cost me an admin fee with the insurance...

Tis all wrong. ALL WRONG!

Thoughts please......

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:25 pm 
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At the moment they catch you with the police or anpr cameras. Not possible on private land.

I could drive anything I liked around the MILs farm with impunity. The public have right of way on a footpath that crosses it. If I hurt someone, at the moment there is no cover and no right to compensation. I don't think that is right, and compulsory insurance would fix that.

It's not so good for the 2 SORN cars in my garage, or the SORN donor for my kitcar, which has been scrapped but the V5 not sent off (cause that causes problems when I want to reuse the engine). I don't want to have to insure them for 3rd party liability, especially as one of them cannot cause an accident of any kind.

Reading that white paper, the government don't want me to have to do that either.


Then there is the question of mobility scooters and similar. Used off-road, no requirement for insurance, yet driven by maniacs who could cause serious injury. At the moment there is no right to compensation if you are hit by one. I don't think that is right.

But I also think push bikes should have 3rd party insurance.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:44 pm 
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beardydave wrote:
At the moment there is no right to compensation if you are hit by one. I don't think that is right.


You can take the negligent party to court.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:57 pm 
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SaabnScotland wrote:
How revelant is that ruling given we we are leaving European Union.


Are we presently in the EU?

Yes?

OK, then it's relevant.

wgl2014 wrote:
beardydave wrote:
At the moment there is no right to compensation if you are hit by one. I don't think that is right.


You can take the negligent party to court.


Totally agree, but it's not right that you have to spend money litigating against a third party when they have broken the law. If legal cases were fought against uninsured drivers free of charge, it would be more acceptable.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:08 pm 
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And theres no guarantee of money even if the ruling goes against them. If they cant pay and ignore any injunction or CCJ then you get nothing.

They might end up declared bankrupt, and you still won't get anything.

If insurance is there then the insurance company pays out. If they don't have it you are paid from the MIB fund and the other party are prosecuted for not having mandatory insurance.


For a while at least i suspect it will work like insurance did 40-50 years ago. If you don't have it and nothing goes wrong, there is no problem. Until there is a high profile case and they are forced to change their stance and start going after people who don't have insurance who probably don't need it because the cars aren't used.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:04 pm 
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There was a long discussion about this elsewhere. The main impact will be on motor sport. You will need to carry insurance, at least for third party damage, if the car is on a track. They reckon that no one will insure a motor cycle for track use. So that would be it. No question of cost. Just that the insurers have said that it's an uninsurable risk.

It will also affect car track days and make them unviable for the average guy. I got a quote a couple of years ago of £750 for one day.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:10 am 
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sgould wrote:
There was a long discussion about this elsewhere. The main impact will be on motor sport. You will need to carry insurance, at least for third party damage, if the car is on a track. They reckon that no one will insure a motor cycle for track use. So that would be it. No question of cost. Just that the insurers have said that it's an uninsurable risk.

You already do have to have 3rd party insurance if participating in a MSA recognised event such as a forest stage rally or a tarmac championship.
Usually its on top of your entry fee and speaking from past experience for forest stages runs at about £26- £46
The organisers of events also have to have insurance cover.
I suspect that you will be able to insure a car or a motorbike for a track day, but limited 3rd party only. you damage anything else that's fine, smash your bike or car up, you are on your own.
Having stuffed a few rally cars into trees, wall, and general undergrowth I accept its my fault so I will have to rebuild my own car.
However you can buy bodyshell insurance for a stage rally so if you do totally prang a car you can get some money back, but it isn't cheap and probably only worth it if you have a WRC spec car....


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:13 am 
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I had insurance on the 'vert when I took it to Cadwell.

Cost me £120 for the day for defined value and the excess was astronomical, but it would have paid off the outstanding finance.


I'm considering the Marham track day in April, and i'd do the same with the Turbo-X. As it's value is much higher i suspect it would cost me a lot more.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:06 pm 
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This is the article I saw before Christmas. You may have to get cover for driving a lawnmower in your garden...

https://bhptrackdays.co.uk/2016/12/22/a ... gislation/

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