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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:30 pm 
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Location: Derbyshire
Car Model: og93 RWD trackcar
Fliptop wrote:
Good power, Mike, nice one.

*not a dig* Looks to be building boost later than I expected from a billet comp wheel - it's a very similar plot to Ade's old car, but with more top end, doesn't really build till about 4000 and then all hell breaks loose. Has Karl said whether he thinks the torque peak can be pulled forward? Or is it deliberately held back to save the box?
When you look at cars like Mark's 9000 (mrd5252) the GT30 can deliver the goods earlier if that's what you want.

Image


Also MRD's car is a 9000 on T5 EMS, so very different from a 9-5 on T7 EMS with different head, inlet manifold / plenum etc etc.
Mikes B235 already had lighter weight internals than a B234 (or hybrid) engine & then his has lighter weight still forged rods n pistons.

SO comparisons are only fair against other 9-5s, why not put YOUR car's dyno plot up against mikes or is really that your a bit :envy: :envy: cos despite all the talk YOUR car is around 100Bhp less.

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Project 9-3GT 484Bhp & 483lb ft / 654Nm
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Mini cooper S 240Bhp


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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:03 pm 
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Location: Fliptop Towers, North Yorks...the flat bit.
Car Model: One or two...
Stu, this really wasn't about starting a peeing contest, I don't understand this over-sensitivity some people seem to have about whether car A is more powerful than car B. I'm not really interested in pub bragging rights, more about how to get the best from our cars whatever spec we have chosen. It was a genuine question and frankly didn't warrant such a reply from you :roll:

I was expecting this trick turbo plus the other tweaks made to deliver more lower down than it seems to be, so despite the great headline power figure I was surprised.
I was, quite simply, being supportive of Mike's latest mods. :wall:

Of course my car delivers less power, it's a GT28 based turbo after all. It's maybe not 100bhp less though.... What I do like about the delivery on mine is the 437lb ft at ~3500rpm that was achieved last time, with over 400 from 3250 to 4500 and there's no reason it won't do that or more now, possibly at even lower rpm.

So no, I'm not evenly remotely envious :? . Mike's got quite a different spec to my car, with different goals in mind. The lighter internals should help it throughout the rev range compared with Mark's 234 AND my hybrid. The trick compressor wheel should spool up faster and harder than a "standard" GT30. T5 vs T7 shouldn't really affect how it builds torque, and of course we all know the T7 head flows better than a T5 head....

Hence I was asking whether it was deliberately held back in the mid range or if there was considerably more to come.

However as you have asked, the following chart shows the same cars, plus mine when dynoed 4 years ago with the restrictive exhaust and delivery pipe, that has since been sorted.
Plus I have added what I am aiming for when it next gets dynoed. I stress this has not been done yet as it needs to stop it spitting MTF out first....it's an approximation based on air mass/rpm calcs

Image

I'll try to find a plot of Kev's car and add that for another comparison of a 235 with forged bottom end.

If you really want to turn this into a peeing contest then perhaps we can discuss usable area under the curve, and how an additional 150+bhp at 3000rpm translates into the way the car drives, but that's not the point of my question so I'm not going to enter into a debate on that.

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S6 Avant 4.0 V8T 450bhp/550Nm
9-5 Aero ~600Nm FB3
Sonett III
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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:46 pm 
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Location: Derbyshire
Car Model: og93 RWD trackcar
Yes please plot ACTUAL dyno charts not theoretical / mythical figures.

And if you really want +150bhp at 3,000rpm by a V8 - Audi RS6 is perfect for that. Still doesn't make it as fast as a car with a higher peak power figure & faster engine acceleration.

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Mini cooper S 240Bhp


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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:26 am 
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Put a SOC in it!
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Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:48 pm
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Location: Fliptop Towers, North Yorks...the flat bit.
Car Model: One or two...
See the red line on the chart, albeit that's an old plot.
But why the trolling? What has any of this got to do with the question I asked of Mike?
:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:02 am 
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Location: Derbyshire
Car Model: og93 RWD trackcar
Fliptop wrote:
See the red line on the chart, albeit that's an old plot.
But why the trolling? What has any of this got to do with the question I asked of Mike?
:roll:


I'm not the one trolling, with a problem - think mikes car is very impressive TBH. 8)

Again ACTUAL dyno plots only count, fact Vs fiction. the rest is pure BS imho :loco:

And mikes billet compressor wheel (Not a GTX turbo as you incorrectly called it) can give more power / efficiency & that's where the more mapping will come into effect - this was just the plain / base map in effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:43 pm 
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Car Model: 9-5
tobyfield wrote:
Amazing stuff and thanks for coming back and sharing

Thanks very much for your kind words, I'm glad you enjoyed reading the update.

Yamas!

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9-5 Aero
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268 Cams
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461.4bhp Dynoed

No 'Circa' BS here!


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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:45 pm 
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paolo wrote:
Success. It's fab when you do something you enjoy and it's even better than you anticipated.
Good on you.
Sorry to hear of your troubles- wishing you all the best.
P

Thanks very much, it's certainly been a hell of a journey, in so many ways and on so many levels.

And that day at Street Racers is not one I'm ever likely to forget! :shock: :lol:

Yamas!

_________________
9-5 Aero
Fully Forged
Hybrid GT3071R
268 Cams
MapTun Nana's
461.4bhp Dynoed

No 'Circa' BS here!


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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:52 pm 
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Quad_cam_turbo wrote:
What an utterly awesome achievement this. 377hp at the wheels is staggering too! Can only imagine what this feels like!
A huge well done to you and all involved.

Thank you very much, very kind if you to say, it's certainly been worth it!

The power is quite incredible but the the one thing I must say is that the engine characteristics have never changed since I started my project. Despite all of the changes I've made, the engine still delivers in the most fuss free and undramatic manner, it's not pesky, it doesn't scream or ever sound thrashy, it just does its thing, it's almost eerie tbh - but I love it all the same!

I've been really lucky to have some very talented and helpful people around me and as I've already said, without their help, guidance, assistance and passion - none of this would've been possible.

I'm a very lucky bloke!

Yamas!

_________________
9-5 Aero
Fully Forged
Hybrid GT3071R
268 Cams
MapTun Nana's
461.4bhp Dynoed

No 'Circa' BS here!


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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:56 pm 
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gazmk2 wrote:
What an awesome thread! Just spent this evening reading through the whole lot! Your car and your build story In general is genuinely inspiring me to get on and do something with mine!

Hats off to you and I hope you health issues are over so you can get on and enjoy life, by that I mean get out and slap as many "fast" cars as you can! Lol

Thanks very much, I'm glad you enjoyed reading my story (so far! :twisted: :roll: :lol: ) and indeed if it helps or inspires you to do something with your car, then even better!

It's certainly been a journey and very hard work at times on so many levels - but it's been worth it.

Good luck with your car!

Yamas!

_________________
9-5 Aero
Fully Forged
Hybrid GT3071R
268 Cams
MapTun Nana's
461.4bhp Dynoed

No 'Circa' BS here!


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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 3:59 pm 
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filathome wrote:
Good on you Mike. Fantastic result.

Cheers Phil - I got there in the end bud! :park: :park: :lol:

I hope you're keeping well.

Yamas!

_________________
9-5 Aero
Fully Forged
Hybrid GT3071R
268 Cams
MapTun Nana's
461.4bhp Dynoed

No 'Circa' BS here!


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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:00 pm 
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Car Model: 9-5
Dan1975 wrote:
Wow! That is awesome. Can only dream of having that sort of power!

Thanks very much.

Yamas!

_________________
9-5 Aero
Fully Forged
Hybrid GT3071R
268 Cams
MapTun Nana's
461.4bhp Dynoed

No 'Circa' BS here!


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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:26 pm
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Car Model: 9-5
IanDB wrote:
Dude... Thanks for updating this thread.. if you hadn't it would have passed me by completely!!
All 75 pages now read and Saab envy has firmly set in.
Ermm.... Wow.

Totally awesome man... much respect...

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Thanks very much for your kind words and I'm glad you enjoyed reading my build thread.

Yamas!

_________________
9-5 Aero
Fully Forged
Hybrid GT3071R
268 Cams
MapTun Nana's
461.4bhp Dynoed

No 'Circa' BS here!


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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:11 pm 
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DeeDub8 wrote:
Very impressed. Glad it's all come together and delivered more than you anticipated. Your build thread is one of the things that has got me planning to try and put together something a bit special.

Thanks for posting the update too.

Many thanks - I'm glad you enjoyed reading my story.

If it can inspire and give others the desire and confidence to do something with their own cars then that's great, it's a long road but one well worth travelling!

Good luck with your car.

Yamas!

_________________
9-5 Aero
Fully Forged
Hybrid GT3071R
268 Cams
MapTun Nana's
461.4bhp Dynoed

No 'Circa' BS here!


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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:26 pm 
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Car Model: 9-5
lancer778544 wrote:
I can only but echo everyone elses comments, what a fab build. My standard aero feels pretty swift with 250bhp, I'd hate to think what its like with nearly 85% more power! I know you have upgraded the clutch and added the LSD, but have you made any upgrades to the gearbox itself or is it happy with the power increase?

Thanks very much for your kind words, very much appreciated.

The gearbox is a standard FM55 unit, it has a Quaife LSD in it which is a massive help and by far one of the best upgrades you could ever carry out, whether your car is tuned or not tbh. I swapped my T5 cams for the MapTun/Enem 268's with half an eye on the gearbox.

What we found during our researching was that whilst the big cams enable the engine to breathe better and extend the power by well over 1000rpm at the top, the byproduct of this is that as the engine is building power at the top, the torque curve has already peaked and is dropping away, thus reducing the torque load on the gearbox as the power climbs. So combined with this information and some considered and careful mapping, we've kind of arrived at where I'm at.

There are some low down losses at the bottom end torque wise, but the car remains very drivable - tbh I always knew there'd be a trade off in fitting the cams but it's given me exactly what I wanted power wise, whilst indirectly protecting the integrity of the gearbox.

I'm under no illusion that my gearbox has become a consumable item and I'm sure at some point it'll need changing, but currently it's absolutely fine and I also have a very good 'gearbox guy' waiting in the wings should I need him.

So there you go!

Many thanks again.

Yamas!

_________________
9-5 Aero
Fully Forged
Hybrid GT3071R
268 Cams
MapTun Nana's
461.4bhp Dynoed

No 'Circa' BS here!


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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:30 pm 
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matt-m wrote:
Hi bud ..glad to see your fruits as you say have been worth while and well do to all that were involved

Cheers Matt - Great to hear from you, I hope you're keeping well bud!

And thanks so much for your kind words, they're very much appreciated.

It's been an interesting journey to get it to this point to say the least! :o :park:

But oh so worth it! :twisted:

Take good care.

Yamas!

_________________
9-5 Aero
Fully Forged
Hybrid GT3071R
268 Cams
MapTun Nana's
461.4bhp Dynoed

No 'Circa' BS here!


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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:36 pm 
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Hirsch Wagons wrote:
Hello Mike

Hope you are keeping well I am glad that your pride and joy is know one of the best 9-5 out there if not the best.I hope dad and me will meet you at one of the Uksaabs meeting at some point in the future.
From David jnr and David snr

Hi David - really good to hear from you my friend, I hope your Dad and you are keeping fit and well and those stunning cars of yours are doing fine too!

Thanks so much for your kind words, they really mean such a lot to me!

You flatter me way to much with your comment - there are some really lovely 9-5's out there with mine being just one of the pack, but thanks all the same.

It'd be great to catch up with you both, it's been ages since we last met - let's hope we can do it soon.

Take good care bud and please pass on my sincerest regards and best wishes to your Dad.

Yamas!

_________________
9-5 Aero
Fully Forged
Hybrid GT3071R
268 Cams
MapTun Nana's
461.4bhp Dynoed

No 'Circa' BS here!


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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:46 pm 
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Fliptop wrote:
Good power, Mike, nice one.

*not a dig*

Unfortunately Alistair when I see a post from you that begins with *not a dig* (sic) - it means exactly the opposite, in the same vernacular the term "no offence" means that someone is about to be, or has just been, more offended than they've ever been in their lives by the hand of another.

I have respectfully asked you in the past not to post on my build thread, but given this is a public forum, I've no control of that other than whether you as an individual has the common decency or respect not to do so.

I guess not! :roll:

It's funny how nobody else on UKS has sought to try and undermine, question or belittle what I've achieved other than you. You're motives are always hidden by ambiguous questions - on the surface it's a genuine enquiry, but underneath it's a veiled dig - as is usual for you, anything to try and take away the good that someone has achieved - and all for your own amusement.

And you dare to accuse others of 'Trolling'?!?! - Unbelievable!

MOD EDIT: Personal insults removed. Remind yourself of the T&Cs of the site and abide by them, no matter how upset you are!

I hope that I've made my feelings transparent and again may I respectfully ask that you do not comment on my build thread, stay away from me and kindly leave me alone, you're comments, input and/or enquiries are not wanted, required or welcome.

_________________
9-5 Aero
Fully Forged
Hybrid GT3071R
268 Cams
MapTun Nana's
461.4bhp Dynoed

No 'Circa' BS here!


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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:47 pm 
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WheelyBigCheese wrote:
Fair play. Absolute beast.

Thanks very much.

Yamas!

_________________
9-5 Aero
Fully Forged
Hybrid GT3071R
268 Cams
MapTun Nana's
461.4bhp Dynoed

No 'Circa' BS here!


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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:54 pm 
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soulfirer wrote:
:D
Mike.
You got there in the end.
Each time we have chatted you have moved it on.
Is this still with the .64 housing, or had you moved it to your .86?

Does not matter what some other people may say.
You will always get dissenters. Doesn't matter.

Every day I drive my car I get enjoyment. Power, torque, noise.
Not everyone understands the sacrifice, cost and ultimately.... the drive to get to this level.
Well done.

Enjoy it while you can, and fly the flag for the big 9-5's!!
Not many of these animals around :wink:

Ps- I may have said before.... Hirsch 18" 6 spokes. IMHO one of the prettiest wheels for the 9-5

Kev
SOULFIRER
:mrgreen:

Thanks Kev - I'm very happy with it.

The turbo is still running a .64ar hot side, as I said I've got an .86 sat here which I may fit one day but for the time being I'll stick to what I've got.

Cheers for your kind words bud, it's been a very in depth experience to say the least and the last 5 years or so have been a genuine rollercoaster with thankfully more ups than downs but nevertheless it's been hard toil and graft.

Had some fantastic people around me to help too!

And yes I love my Hirsch 18's - I still think they're the best fitment on the 9-5 Saloon. stunning they are!

Take good care.

Yamas!

_________________
9-5 Aero
Fully Forged
Hybrid GT3071R
268 Cams
MapTun Nana's
461.4bhp Dynoed

No 'Circa' BS here!


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 Post subject: Re: Meatfeast 9-5 Aero
PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:11 pm 
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Car 55 wrote:
Oft.. how did I miss this.. :o
Great build Mike, hey it must be in the name eh :wink:
I better get back in the garage later..
Look after it and yourself.. well done..

Thanks Mike

Coming from you I'm really honoured bud - I've seen your work over the years and it's fantastic!

I'll do my very best to look after it and maybe even look at what's next - but maybe not just yet eh! :lol:

Take good care.

Yamas!

_________________
9-5 Aero
Fully Forged
Hybrid GT3071R
268 Cams
MapTun Nana's
461.4bhp Dynoed

No 'Circa' BS here!


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