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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:11 am 
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Car Model: Saab 9.5 build end 2004
Saab 9.5/2004 - Navigation/Radio system display screen confused and can not set it up.

Yesterday I changed the jalousie on my Saab 9.5 (2004, EU Model) Automatic by removing the gear shifter etc. To do this I disconnected the Battery, of course, as I needed to remove, among other things, the Sport Button. So all in all the SID (I think it is called the SID unit, correct?) was disconnected for maybe a few hours (had lunch in-between).

This AM I noted that my SID system is confused.

Some of the symptoms are:
• RDS retime is also not working (pushing both small buttons left under the time display).
• The setup-screens are confused: not displaying all text.
• The setup-screens are confused; some buttons on the touch screen do not work.
• The ‘adjust’ setup-screen shows on the top half the navigation screen.
• Cannot set up the clock manually.
• And a few more.

I tried to disconnect the battery again for about a minute, but this did not work.

Anybody any suggestions? I hope so as I did not find anything on the Internet.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 12:38 pm 
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Location: SW Herts
Car Model: 9-5 Aero est. 9-3 Carlsson
Welcome! :)

I've never had a 2004 9-5 with satnav, but it's a completely different unit from the later cars. As I understand it, what you see is just the head unit. All the main working parts are in the boot. Find the DVD player in the boot and clean the disc. I believe that there's a small reset button on that unit that you can press with something small and pointy. There's also a connector unit between the head unit and the boot stuff behind the glovebox. I can't help much more because I've only ever looked at the head unit and the boot bits.

The whole kit is almost standard Kenwood, apart from the dash head unit.

Look for some posts on here by "sandwer". He knows how the sat nave system works.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 9:50 pm 
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Car Model: Saab 9.5 build end 2004
Thanks, I looked at the posts sandwer has but saw nothing there. I can also not PM him form my account as I have not enough posts. maybe somebody can aks him to have a look at my question?
Thanks.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:16 pm 
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Car Model: Saab 9.5 build end 2004
Enclosed some pics. I hope this helps in finding a solution.
Pic 1 is as navi should be.
Pic 2 shows the screen field as mentioned n my original post.
Pic 3 shows the fields that can not be activated.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/kg4nwh3w/dafc8bfe/

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:23 pm 
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You need 5 posts to enable to send a PM. Just posts few general comments.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:37 am 
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Car Model: Saab 9.5 build end 2004
Greetings, update.


I did two runs yesterday of about 35 miles each. During the drive I used to Navigation system in order to see how well it works given the challenges I have with the whole box. The routes I took are known to me, so I could check up on the system. It worked flawless. However I noted that the GPS indicator reported that it had not GPS (It is on the left almost on the top and a white box with GPS written in it and it was crossed out). I have never seen this appear before in the open air, besides from in the garage.

It took about between 5 and 10 minutes for the no GPS sign to go away.

Once it was gone, it did however not solve the problem I was not being able to set the time zone and the clock etc. (picture 3). Those fields remain blocked in a way.

So I expect there is an antenna problem. It pops the following questions for me:
1 Is there an easy way to check if the shark fin on the roof is faulty?
2 Are there any cables I could have disturbed replacing the jalousie?
3 Any tips?

Thanks

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:08 am 
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The GPS aerial is in the shark fin on the roof. That also has a second aerial in it for a car phone kit. The phone aerial is not needed these days With Bluetooth kits, but the aerial has a co-ax wire to the front which ends up near where you were working on the jalousie, but I can’t see that having an effect.

What state is the aerial in? They fall apart. Has yours been replaced by the wrong type of aerial? Or is it just failing?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:05 am 
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Car Model: Saab 9.5 build end 2004
sgould wrote:
The GPS aerial is in the shark fin on the roof.


I knew that thanks.

Quote:
That also has a second aerial in it for a car phone kit. The phone aerial is not needed these days With Bluetooth kits, but the aerial has a co-ax wire to the front which ends up near where you were working on the jalousie, but I can’t see that having an effect.


OK maybe it was damaged? Would be a later option to check.

Quote:
What state is the aerial in? They fall apart.


Looks fine on the outside. Or what do you mean?

Quote:
Has yours been replaced by the wrong type of aerial? Or is it just failing?


it was never replaced, and I do not know if it is failing. How does one check if it is failing?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:00 pm 
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The rubber outside of many aerials degrade in the sun. Then the rubber cracks and things inside can get wet.

Attachment:
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In your car it's only the redundant lead from the phone aerial that goes to the front. The GPS lead should run straight down to the satnav unit in the boot.

What I meant was that all the sharkfins look the same. I could be that it's been replaced with a "phone aerial only" version and the wrong aerial is being used. If you look under the headlining, have you got a blue and a purple connector? If so, you have the correct sharkfin.

Attachment:
DSC00650.jpg
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If you do find that the fault lies with the main unit in the boot, then there's a replacement Kenwood part that is newer and has more functions, but I can't remember the details because I haven't owned one.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:48 pm 
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Car Model: Saab 9.5 build end 2004
sgould wrote:
The rubber outside of many aerials degrade in the sun. Then the rubber cracks and things inside can get wet.


Nope, the rubber is in top condition.

Quote:
In your car it's only the redundant lead from the phone aerial that goes to the front. The GPS lead should run straight down to the satnav unit in the boot.


If you ‘the say the sat/nav in the boot’, do you mean the cd changers? Because as far as I know that is all there is in the boot unless there is something else hiding there.

Quote:
What I meant was that all the sharkfins look the same. I could be that it's been replaced with a "phone aerial only" version and the wrong aerial is being used. If you look under the headlining, have you got a blue and a purple connector? If so, you have the correct sharkfin.


Nope not been replaced as the car has been in our family from new, and do not forget it was working fine before I changed the jalousie and had stopped working when I finished that job. Could be coincidence and it could be still that the antenna died in that moment. That is why I asked how to test this guy.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:15 pm 
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Ah! Are we barking up the wrong tree? Is your car a late 2004 car which is a 2005 model? Have a look at the VIN number in the windscreen. The 10th digit is the year of manufacture. 4=2004. 5=2005.

If your car is a 2005 model, the sat nav is a single combined unit mounted in the dash. It's a Denso model and ran to the end of production in 2010. I had one in my 2007 car. It looks like this... Look at the buttons. The surround from 2006 onwards is wider.

Attachment:
Screen Shot 2018-12-27 at 18.14.59.png
Screen Shot 2018-12-27 at 18.14.59.png [ 95.14 KiB | Viewed 1366 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:16 am 
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Car Model: Saab 9.5 build end 2004
Morning sgould and thanks for helping me out here.

sgould wrote:
Ah! Are we barking up the wrong tree? Is your car a late 2004 car which is a 2005 model?

Poor tree, I wonder if it is always the same tree…
But yes, we got some crossed wires here. First registration was end 2004 and marketed at the time as a 2005 model.

Quote:
Have a look at the VIN number in the windscreen. The 10th digit is the year of manufacture. 4=2004. 5=2005.

Confirmed, tenth digit is a 5.

Quote:
If your car is a 2005 model, the sat nav is a single combined unit mounted in the dash. It's a Denso model and ran to the end of production in 2010.

OK so that is clear now, I had confirmed it to be a Denso by looking for solutions on the Internet before posting.

At the risk of repeating myself I said before that on the runs I did the other day it took a while for the GPS to kick in. Could this be an indicator? There again my mobile phone does that too when I use the navigation app on it on my bicycle.

So now the questions remaining, in my humble opinion, are:
1. Is there a cable running under the jalousie that I could have disturbed exchanging it?
2. What could cause this problem?
3. Since the shark fin was working the day before can we safely assume it is not that?
4. Does the Denso need resetting? And if so how? (I had it disconnected for 24 hours as I found in other post that this sometimes solves problems with the Denso. Needles to say it did not).

Look forward to your wisdom.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:44 am 
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I’ll have a look at the workshop manual when I get home to my computer later and see what I can find. I’ve had the sat nav unit out of my car a few times. The last time was to remove it when it failed completely!! :o

It might be worth taking it out and checking that all the plugs are still pushed in. The GPS aerial connector is the grey one and latches into place, it should be OK. The wire is bound into the loom and disappears off behind the dash, I don’t remember anything heading under the gear selector.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:47 am 
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If you do remove the head unit, the removing tools are very expensive from Saab. Some cheaper Clarion ones from Halfords will work, but the shoulders need trimming off.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:13 pm 
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Hi sgould,

where does one find a workshop manual? Might indeed be handy to have.

I found the Clarion tools on the Hallfords site. Need to see if they ship to Europe as I presently live on the continent.

Look forward to your findings form the workshop manual.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:36 pm 
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Here's a picture of the tool difference. Before I found out about it, I bought a couple of pairs of Saab tools at £15/pr +VAT.

The Clarion ones are around £3.50 a pair inc VAT, last time I looked.

Attachment:
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Her's a picture of the rear of the Denso unit, in case that helps...

Attachment:
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There's a download of the workshop manual - Saab Workshop Information System - "SaabWIS" here: http://saabworld.net/showthread.php?t=33310 Use it at your own risk. It needs Windows OS to work. Early systems only worked on Vista or earlier, but now cracked to work on Win 10 etc. Most Saab owners who DIY have a copy. As Saab have ceased to exist and the WIS has not been updated for 6 years at least, I consider it to be "abandoned" and not subject to restriction.

There is also the Electronic Parts Catalogue "Saab EPC" which is also pretty essential to DIY owners. often putting the Saab part number into an Opel/Vauxhall site can find an identical part with the same GM part number.

More later, hopefully...

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Found some more photos, taken when I did the replacement of the head unit.

The radio loom disappears off to the right.

Attachment:
DSC03155.JPG
DSC03155.JPG [ 113.66 KiB | Viewed 1327 times ]


And the only wiring around the jalousie seem to be related to the selector strip illumination, the locking switch and the ignition, etc. Nothing relating to the satnav or head unit.

Attachment:
DSC02877.JPG.jpg
DSC02877.JPG.jpg [ 125.64 KiB | Viewed 1327 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:25 pm 
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Looking at WIS, there seems to be one wire running through the car, but only to the rear of the car. The aerial wires run along the RHS of the roof and down the windscreen pillar. The loom from the head unit runs across to the fusebox in the end of the dash board and to the amplifier on the side panel in front of the door.

One other quick question. As you are in Europe, is your car LHD or RHD? The fusebox is on the other side of the car. Driver's side whichever market. Not sure about the audio amp.

Pic from WIS, but for LHD car with fusebox on the left...

Attachment:
IMG_1779.JPG
IMG_1779.JPG [ 64.66 KiB | Viewed 1322 times ]

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:04 pm 
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Hi sgould, thanks a million.

No mine is a LHD, European model.

Anyway a lot of info and thank you for it. As we write WIS is downloading. See if we can get it to work as I am on a Mac.

Need to get the tools first to remove the unit, and good to know there is no cable around the jalousie. That solves one possible culprit. Truing to locate them here, but got a mate lined up to pick them up in Elgin and mail them.

Just back from an other 60 mile run but all remains the same, still puzzled as to why I can not set the clock on the Denso Unit.

Looking for solutions I found this, they seem to repair Denso Units. http://www.denso-am.com/services/why-denso-navigation-repair. Just in case somebody lands on this link.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:17 pm 
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I ran WIS through Vista using Parallels on a Mac, but I also tried to use the Saab Tech2 computer which needs linking to a GM program called "Global Information System" and that needed reinstalling every time I got an Apple or a Parallels software upgrade. So I now run it on an old cheap Windows laptop with Windows XP. There are several free emulator packages that will replace Parallels.

I did try running it on Parallels with Windows 7 but it was painfully slow. Probably something I've done...

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