UKSaabs

Right! Slowly waking up after a long respite from Saab antics and probably a bit early with a thread but I'd like to get some ideas going...

Requirement: 4 seats. Ability to move family about locally when required and bang round a track reliably. Sounds daft but that's the deal...
The car is the same Silver 9k Aero I've always had but it's been sitting useless on the drive since I blew the head gasket at Bedford Autodrome.

Current problem : You might recall I have managed to crack the block around all the bolt holes. Still not entirely sure of root cause but engine was toast so that's the first thing to get sorted.
Remit for new engine is to build on areas where I've had issues but 'just' enough as I'm too tight for anything too fancy

New Engine:
B234 with 180k miles from a 2.3t auto for £50. Now fully stripped down.

Spec Changes to existing:
1) Wossner Forged pistons 8.5 Cr 91mm. : Doubts on new rings on existing pistons and old bores, Was impressed with MRDs wossner's lack of fuss when tuning big ignition. A little lighter too.
2) Balance chain, balance shaft delete. Full delete including blocked oilways ; Less to go wrong. Less interia. Tiny bit of weight loss.
3) Froggy lowered and partially baffled sump: Slightly less chance of oil starvation.
4) ARP Head studs from GS. Easy to get a great clamping and easy to check / torque up.
3) Lighter 5.5kg flywheel

New bits:
Shells
Recon Head inc. new valve seals etc.
Cam chain and lower sprocket
Various gaskets / seals
Nowt else!

Block finally dropped off at Sutton Rebore to get a rebore for the wossners ( funnily enough), check / deck the top of the block and a steam wash. Should get it back next week.

Having never needed to rebuild an engine I'm going to post up here as I go along.

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If it isnae broke, dinae fix it

Faero's back!

....ill call the SAS search party off now Phil

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1st rule of fat club is you don't talk about fat club...

Wow are Sutton Rebore still going??? Used to use them years ago. They were great guys



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MY2005 9-5 Aero Estate Noobtune Stage 3
MY2005 9-3 Aero Convertible

Cool, a lot of those mods im doing to my B234 as well at the moment

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Project 9-3GT 484Bhp & 483lb ft / 654Nm
Lightweight trackcar - more coming soon!

Having just acquired a B234 I'll be copying at will Great stuff Phil welcome back.

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2000 93 Viggen Noobtune stg 3
Trackday 93 2.0 Stage 3 271bhp

Is this your supperleggera with a smidge of practicality thrown in?
Look forward to watching how the build progresses.

Did I read your first post right - you've gone with 91mm Wossner pistons as you had doubts about using fresh ring on old pistons and worn bores? Reckon the sealing might not have been as good as it could be?

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Rich
CC Carlsson - shhh! The colour's a secret
CSi - midnight blue

I will lay in a stack of biscuits; looking forward to the read

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96 9000 2.3 Auto & Fast
97 9000 2.0 Saabotage Mean & Filthy
98 gm900 SE 'vert Just Filthy

Good luck on the engine build! Our talk yesterday motivated me as well, then I went to the door and got hit by the snow and slacked off.

Forgot to ask, what are you doing to the crank? Check specs, balance, micro-polish?

McVities : Yes - this is the same old horse but with those daft seats and lighter wheels.... I had potentially unfounded doubts about using new rings in old bores/rehoned bores and various combinations so I just took the 'clean slate' approach. I am sure fresh rings and a hone would have probably been OK....

Mikeeb: Nice chap at Sutton rebore - really close to me too so lets see how it goes.

Nemesismoo/Jeffthechef: I'm not going to be doing anything groundbreaking.... but good to share ideas as I go through this..

Aerohead:

THis is the million dollar question on the rebuild - where do you stop? Pistons and ARP bolts are both a bit of a luxury tbh. Anything I spend now I need to justify

1) Crank micro polish: Seems well regarded and as I'm running high rpm it might be worth considering as it can take a bit of friction/heat out of the big ends. At £25+vat at Sutton for the crank it seems worth it just to try?

2) Full crank balance with flywheel and drive pulley - £120+vat. Not sure that's worth the cash??

Anything else I should consider/price up ?

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If it isnae broke, dinae fix it

Diff if you can find one Phil, has to be a must for a track orientated Saab. The difference is night and day.

-=F=-

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Chuck Norris destroyed the periodic table, coz Chuck Norris only recognizes the element of surprise.

Phil has a LSD already.

With regards to crank journals micro polish.... I've always used a length of cloth the width of the journal about 12'' long and soaked in brasso or similar very fine metal polish...1 full wrap around the journal and then pull each end to 'spin' the cloth around the bearing surface...
I do this on newly ground cranks too, concentrating on the radiused corners to remove any potential stress points that can occur if the grind stone used hasn't been examined closely before each regrind.

Not far from me either. We used them when I was @ the Saab dealer in Chipstead - mainly head skims. Also they decked the block and the crank and fly wheel balance/lighten for the B roadster Dad and I used to have

Surely if your running high rpm (8kish??) A full balance has to got be worth it, especially with the balance gear removal?



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MY2005 9-5 Aero Estate Noobtune Stage 3
MY2005 9-3 Aero Convertible

Shot peen the con rods
not dear but relieves the stress in the conrods
match weight the pistons/conrod assembly
for balance
Balance the rest?

£120 seems steep

Phil it is a real slippery slope, that's why I'm refusing to take the head off my engine as it ran perfectly when removed and had perfect compression. Wiser more experienced people have advised me to set a defined build before starting taking the engine apart next time, and only deviate if a problem is found.

I think the connecting rod shot-peen is good advice, especially at the power you are running, well cheaper than alloy con rods.

Balancing is very good as you are going to rev it high, not certail what it should cost, but the more parts dynamically balanced the better.

Mark, I suspect the brasso might help, but nice and shiney is not really what we are after
A top machine shop will chart the hills and valleys of your crank and smooth them out, not something the average machine shop will do to cranks. Good article here:
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... nough.aspx

Thanks all

Con rod shot peen: the rods do seem to be massively strong and cases of breakage seem rare? i.e. Shot peening will help reduce the chance of a complete fracture but will not stop them bending and won't make them 'stronger'. Nothing negative on this one.

Crank/ Flywheel/pulley balance: This makes sense and I'll do more digging on this re. pricing.

Balance of Conrods and pistons: Looks like a piece of cake to do at home with some scales. I'll do that myself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLpiF0E0EJU

BUT - I think to get a 'full balance' they need to weigh the pistons / rods/ shells all together and clamp that weight to the crank although I'm not sure how they do it normally.
Is this a 'full balance' ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKZ05wS8DwU

Crank Polishing: Again - sensible but down to price: I assume this is the technique I'm looking for?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHVzyvszbhw

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If it isnae broke, dinae fix it

My advice, FWIW, with two unfinished projects (one which had stupid amounts of money poured into it...), is:

Don't take on more than you can finish in a sensible time frame!

I.e. the rod balancing etc - yes it's possible to do that yourself, but if it costs say 25 quid a rod, then I'd definitely spend that with a pro and just "get it done" and save the time. If you're anything like me, you'll have a couple hours a week for project work, and that time is precious.

Also, do not shoot for too high power, because even with uprated internals, uprated gearbox etc etc you are playing for time when you get over 400 odd hp seemingly.

Adding the extra 50-100hp will cost you in terms of money, reliability, extra heat generation, low end response etc, and in reality a 400 vs a 500hp car is not much slower around a race track anyway, especially not if it's badger drive, as you wont be able to put the power down sensibly until you're well out of a corner.
Consider spending the extra money you'd spend on an engine capable of higher power on improved handling and braking, both of which will make a real difference on track.

I'm finally starting to see the light at the end of a tunnel to a running project car (yay!!), but it's been a long slog and at times i've felt like calling the scrapman. If the car had been in a running state at least occasionally during the process, it would have been more fun. As it is, my plan of action is to get my car into one piece again and have it MOT'd and then have a rolling project.

Oh, and good luck, I look forward to see some more Faero Engineering

Btw, seeing as engines are dirt cheap anyway, can't you get one dirt cheap engine, drop it in and at least get the car running? The other engine can then be built up on a block and you can still hooligan around in the car in the meantime

Wise words Mr Hendrik...

I ran the car at Bedford late last year and really enjoyed it but had a whole host of things I didnt like or needed improved

1) It was 35C at bedford and the heat took it's toll and I blew the HG. It was obviously generating too much heat and tuned too near to the edge for lap after lap action.
Action: Bigger radiator, better heat wrap, MUCH better engine monitoring. And turn the boost down a wee bit .....

2) I wasnt happy with the handling at all but I know where I'm going with that now and I'll pick that up later in the thread. Was a hoot down the straights though.
Net: I'm just copying what is already there so it's all well proven although running 500bhp on the track was a bit OTT but midrange boost was kept in check to help the gearbox which seemed happy enough.

Time wise: You might be right - just get someone to do the bits I need quickly as I've little enough time just to get the engine in ( and to your point, I don't really want to do it twice if I can avoid).

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If it isnae broke, dinae fix it

Another slight gain is the lower ring tension with the wossners compared to the thicker Saab ring set . I didn't get chance to measure the tension of the Saab rings but from a bit of research aftermarket pistons seem to be lower than oe ones probably based on not having to be designed for life of the engine like a manufacturer would have to

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holset vgt 469 whp @1.7 bar
Mighty turbone kitten warp factor 2 @1.9 bar