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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:10 pm 
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The Below info is taken from my document i've been writing since i started the project ,so with my slow progress this is 2 years of work but i have replaced or upgraded every component with new items , I have loads more pics and step by step write ups but can't really be bothered to post it all.

Also alot of the pictures are poo quality due to my phone

Some of you may know I have now sold all my Bmw M20 turbo equipment and are now in the process of purchasing a post 1993 Saab 9000 aero for the engine. I juct couldn't justify spending 7k on an engine.

PS You don't know how many times iv almost sold every thing a bought something else to abuse.

Enjoy.



Before I get into the project I’ll explain the story which leads me to the point I’m at now (and thousand of pounds worse off)

In October 2005 I was at university in Swansea and was in serious need off a run around and craved some sideways action (I currently had a very special VW Polo G40 at home and didn’t want to take it to the car crime capital of Wales). Several of my friends had E30 325i’s and this is what I decided on. Ebay was my next port of call and a 169k 325i SE was purchased

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After a few weeks it was clear that the 20 year old E30 could be so much better with an input of cash, however being a broke student I didn’t have any and as a result the G40 was sold to fund the initial project

The spec was planned and purchased

SPAX PSX kit -60
Strip the interior
LSD
DS2500 pads and Black diamond disks
Braided hoses
Sparco steering wheel
Powerflex bushes through out
6 Point cage.
15” split wheels

Image

I was happy with this for a few months and did a few track days/drifting. However it soon be came clear that the 325i isn’t that quick and is in desperate need of some more power.

I wanted to create an e30 that was as much fun in the dry as the stripped 325i with LSD is in the wet. With little research it was clear that Turboing the M20 was the way to go and while the engine was out the 2 door shell was going to be resprayed (September 2006)
So the engine was taken out and the plan was to respray the shell.

At this point I purchased some goodies with the below spec and said good buy to a student loan


Engine:

Fully rebuild: rebored block, lead copper big end and main bearings etc
Polished Crank
8:1 C:R with JE forged pistons and total seal rings
O-Ringed + decked block by 0.1mm

Head Spec

PPF valves + springs with high accuracy cut valve seat
Welded water jackets (where appropriate)
New valve stems
Standard Cam (possible change before completion)

Other components

750cc injectors
Large Intercooler
Spec 3 clutch


However once the strip down started, the shell was past its best and an alternative was found in the shape of a recently resprayed and derusted rolling touring shell.

Saying buy buy to the original

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Here is a pic after I got rid of the rusty old running gear, the outside had been sprayed very well in brilliant red, although the interior was still the original alpine white, this didn't bother me as the cage and chassis mods would have damaged the paint anyhow.

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The next stage was to start planning a spec list, due the exchange rate at the time I bought a lot of stuff from Ireland engineering in the us.

Which included

E30 front coilover conversion kit
Urethane rear Subframe mounts
Urethane engine mounts
Urethane gearbox mounts
Adjustable camber top mounts
Adjustable rear camber and toe kit
Billet rear anti roll bar mounts
Billet rear top mounts
Eibach 550Ibs / 600Ibs coilover spring kit


Front strut Conversion

The below pic shows the front struts after sandblasting with the ring welded on for the coilover perch

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Here the strut assembly shown once sprayed and assembled with the top mounts
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Rear Bean Conversion

When ordering the suspension parts the camber and toe adjustment kit was chosen, this will in the future allow the car to be setup as necessary for drift or track use and also give the option of reducing the excessive negative camber produced when lowering the e30.

Outer pick up points are for toe and inner are for camber, hence why the outer bracket slot is horizontal and the inners are vertical.

A dye grinder was used for the slots

Image


Image


The New bushes being installed

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Rear beam Finalised with the brackets welde and whole beam painted

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Front Subframe Reinforcement

To prevent flex in the front cross member due to big power reinforcement brackets were purchased from UWEM3

Below of subframe after sandblasting

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Subframe with bracket welded on.

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Subframe painted

Image


Shell Work

Now work started on the shell.

First, I wire brushed the underside and waxoyled it.

Image


Image



Following this work started in side, the first step was to remove the nasty/ heavy sound deadening.

Image


This is a horrible job, Ive learnt recently that te easiest method is using dry ice. Not chipping inch by inch with a screw driver and hammer

Image


Sunroof removal

To save further weight i decided to remove the sunroof and replace it with a cabon fibre panel.

Image


I had to leave a lip for the panel to be bonded/ riveted to

Image


Once that was tidied up, I used Proflex for the bonding and screwed the carbon panel in place.

Image


Rear Diff hanger Modifications

With some research, it became clear that the weakness in the e30 shell when running a large increase in torque/power was the rear differential hanger and after viewing the picture below it was decided that thorough reinforcement was required

Image


While Chatting to Ant @ Atech he gave me a few ideas and i knocked up a drawing on Solidworks,

Image



Image



Image

When sourcing a diff, i contacted Kevo and he built me one to my specification.

E36 back plate and trigger wheel
Sand blasted casing
50% Lockup LSD
Tightened plates
new seals
3.46 ratio


At this point the Cage was also welded in

Image


Once the fabrication was complete the inside was sparyed.

Inside Respray

The inside was complete degreased and rubber down usin 600 grit sand paper.

Then red oxide primer was applied.

Image


following this that coat was rubbed down using 1200 grip and the brilliant red first coat was applied.

Image


This coat was then rubbed down with 1200 grit and another coat was applied. Following this a clear coat was added.

Image


In the above pic the colour looks a little orange but this is due to my poo camera phone.

With the car sprayed the running gear was bolted on

Image


Suspension and driveline spec so far


Here it is the progress to date, still lots to do but most is bolting bits on so progress will be fast.

Image


Image


Suspension

Coilover fronts with eibach 600ibs springs and spax adjustible dampers
Rear Eibach 650ibs springs and spax adjustible dampers
Adjustible top mounts
Adjustible rear beam with ireland engineering bushes othrough out
M3 control arm bushes
H&R roll bars
Billet rear anti roll bar pick up points
Ireland engineering rear billet top mounts
Ireland engineering Front strut brace
6 Point OMP FIA roll cage

Steering

Z3 1.9 steering rack
Solid Steering Guibo
Every bolt /bracket /bush replaced


Brakes

Wilwood 310mm brakes
25 mm master cylinder

Image


Transmission

50% lock up and rebuilt LSD
E36 diff back plate
Modified diff hanger and reinforced rear end

Wheels

BBS LM replicas (wanted the real ones but cound't spend 2k on wheels :mad: )
Toyo T1r tyres

Ive also installed my Fuel cell today, helps with space around the rear beam when changing setup and hepls with the front heavy e30.
IMO it also looks ace.

Image

Heres the pic of the recently installed front intercooler the front was cut away for this to be installed.

Image


Some other Bits that need to go in.

Image


Group A carbon mirrors :cool:

Image


Jobs to do to Finish


Brake lines through car
Install perspex windows
Install wiring loom and cut down
Install fire extinguisher and cut off
Find omega gear box and prop
Fabricate mounts


Iv started installing the loom today :cry: , which if you read my posts from above will know that i didn't mark any thing up. However i did sort of remember where every thing went so wasn't to bad.

Image

Image

As the car doesn't need the electric windows , mirrors, heater, abs, clocks, check computer etc from before , iv also started to unrap the loom and cut the bits out that aren't required. Following the Bently wiring diagrams is great fun :eek:

Image

Heres what i have cut out already
Image

Thats the progress on the loom so far.

Got my flocked dash back this week :cool:

Image
Image

Here is the compay that did the work,(they had some stunning mk1 and 2 escorts there)
http://www.centralblastcleaning.co.uk/s ... ocking.php

The quality of the flocking is awesome and I'm over the moon with the results. Does any body know how durable the flocking is?

On the donor car front, iv been looking at every possible website for the right car but nothing yet.



The Donor

Picked up the Saab 9000 aero this morning and paid just £650 for it.

The body is rough as a bears bottom (perfect) but the engine is mint and clearly had a bit of cash spent on it.including saab flight stage 3 ecu, dump valve, induction kit, silicon hoses, new radiator and electric fan with switch on dash, boost gauge, poly engine gearbox mounts etc etc

Also have a Dyno chart stating 304bhp and 320nm of torque. She felt chubby quick in the saab body which weighs 1438kg, so i think the 1000kg e30 will be great fun especially with the 50% locking lsd.

Heres a few pictures
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Image

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And the important part

Image

Image

Image

I'm planning on starting the stripp down tomorrow and on the search for an omega gear box


Last edited by bmw234r on Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:14 pm 
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Hi all,

This was taken off my post on the e30 zone forum, so is written with e30 owners inmind who understand bmw engine numbers etc :oops:

Sorry if this offends any of the Saab purists but the biggest problem with saabs is they drive the wrong wheels. However they make awesome engines hence the theory in the build. 8)

I may need a little help in the future getting a bit more power.

I will keep you lot updated.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:22 pm 
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Thanks for posting it, I am sure there are many here who will watch with interest.....

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:37 pm 
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Nice Thread! :wink:, has this one been on all the BMW forums ?, looks like they are having problems with the Trionic 5 :wall:
http://www.saabscene.com/forum/index.ph ... c=31639595


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:53 pm 
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Location: UK, USA, Deutscheland
Car Model: sorted 9000 Aero; 9000R
Great quality build and write-up, you are doing something I would love to try.

BMW handling with tuned 234 Saab engine power, sounds a winner!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:58 pm 
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TFatC wrote:
Thanks for posting it, I am sure there are many here who will watch with interest.....


An understatement :lol: A powerful rear drive SAAB yum.

Good Luck

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 6:24 pm 
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awsome mate should be fun

iv got a mate that had a 3.6 i think m5 engine in his e30 but hes now putting a 600 bhp supra turbo engine in it

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:19 pm 
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Wow I like that a lot 8) I've always prefered the Touring over the booted 325..
I don't feel so bad about my aero being broken, now I know the awesome car its going to be powering :twisted:

Thanks for posting this Dave I'll be watching your progress and hopefully see it tearing up a track soon...


Last edited by trig on Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:57 pm 
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Thanks for all the positive comments.

the thead on saab central looks a little :?

I guess i will have to tackle this when i get to this point, however i'm unlikely to have his engine spec for a while.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:03 pm 
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that flocking looks flocking awesome....

Wish I had seen it before I restored the interior of my lotus

ah well might do my monster's dash top....

good luck with the build
It looks as if you have thought of everything !

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:05 pm 
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What a fantastic project! 8)

Although i'm sorry that i'll never be up against trig in his black aero again, i'm glad the aero's heart will continue to be blasting round race tracks!

I will be watching this thread eagerly for updates, really looking forward to seeing the finished product at a saab trackday in the future.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:19 pm 
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Car Model: 3 door 900 lpt 92yr / 2 door e
nice one, for sure keep us posted, BMW,s in the Aberdeen area is - well its a fashion statement, i,ll take great pleasure in commenting that the best one i,ve seen is going to be running on SAAB
Make sure you finish it before the wife n kids come along :lol:
whats your target HP / rpm range of usable delivery ?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:32 pm 
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For starters, I think I'm going to target a reliable 300hp and get every thing running reliably without technical issues.

So far the spec will be

saab flight stage 3 ecu
large front mount intercooler
forge actuator
and when the exhaust is fabricated I'm going to use 3 inch from turbo back.

Whats your opinions on this spec? and what is recommended to keep the 234r reliable under hard use. ?

Iv read about base boost coming on when its bounced of the limiter?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:51 pm 
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Car Model: 9-5 Aero est. 9-3 Carlsson
300 hp should be totally reliable. I have the Hirsch upgrade on my 9-5 Aero and it carries the Saab 3 year guarantee :)

http://www.hirsch-performance.ch/Conten ... E280008291

And the 9000 B234 block is said to be stronger than mine.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:16 pm 
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And a nice upgrade to that Stage3/4 you have in future is

Convert turbo to TD04 18T or 19T or similar
Green injectors (volvo bosch -968s)
3 bar map sensor
New map

This gives a nice 340-360bhp with a torque curve that doesnt fade and sings better past 5k. I guess this is 'stage 5' and I really liked it in my Aero - just a nicer delivery through the range than the TD04 15T pushed to the max.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 7:36 am 
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I,ll back up Faero here, around 350 to 370 crank is a nice all round good power spread and easy to achieve via a veriaty of TD04 hybrids or a GT28rs ( sounds like your talking with SAABflight - Dave greenwood or Tim - who can advise on options)
std cams / head / ex manifold
bigger injectors (430cc greens or 630cc seimans blacks both work)
std MAP works but for better boost control a cheap GM 3bar MAP sensor from the states is better)
you,ll need to think about a clutch upgrade and there are two known and proven routes to this - full spec system or the Sachs upgraded pressure plate)
Engine wise, fair to say you can just change the oil and chuck it in, but a sump drop and filter screen wash out, a new cam chain, head off and replace the C/H gasket, remove the balancer shaft chain, 40% weight reduction flywheel skim - will all be worth while, a new set of shell,s and rings are cheap, not necessary but hayho, then if your really into it, a crank balance and shot peen on the rods would be the icing.

Think about your turbo versus Ex pipe and inlet layout, using 9000 components gets you a fwd facing ex pipe, use 9-3 // 9-5 // volvo etc.. TD04 types gets you a rear facing ex pipe

On the inlet side, std 9000 puts your inlet at the rear - plenium can be cut and welded to put this at the front, otherwise a manifold from a NG900 or 9-5 etc.. gives you a top mounted throttle.
i.e. by pick n mix from the various models you can have just about any layout option you require.


Where do you recon the weak point in the system will be, gearbox / diff ?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:57 am 
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The above infomation is great.

I have n't spoken to saabflight,however the car is fitted with with the ecu already.

As for the td04 hybrid, is there any donnor cars (impreza) that i can take it off or is it a case of buying a new unit?

When you say remove the balancing shft chain, do you mean replace it with a new one or bin it?

I think the weak point will be the gearbox, as the gm r28 is rated up to 280nm :roll: , i'm not really sure what alteratives are but i guess theres some sort of safety factor in that figure (i hope). The bmw e30 diffs have proven to be reliable up to 400bhp and equivelent torque.

cheers


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:20 am 
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Hi bmw234r

This is a very interesting project. I may have missed the info in this thread and the thread on Saabscene, but what is the purpose of this project? Is it just because its possible? 8) or to have a very fast road car? or have you competition in mind. I see the car is stripped and stiffened so something is in mind and quarter mile or hill climbing would want a different approach from tracking events and could have a bearing on some of issues you are experiencing.

Regards and Good Luck

Logan

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:58 am 
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Just on the Turbo options:

There are really no plug and play options outside the 'usual suspects' that will work well with these engines AND provide easy source of proven remaps for you.

Ok - you don't car about the turbo exhaust outlet as you'll be making your own. That opens the choice up. If you then decide you can make up your own header, then yes, you can fit almost any turbo.

Me? I'd stick to turbos that are known to work really well on that engine. You might find a good option but you could spend a lot of effort to be quite dissapointed.

Here's my hit list:

Stock T25 manifold and saab stock 2.25" exhaust outlet.

TD04 -15T - Peak flow 306bhp - standard
TD04 -18T plus turbine wheel clip - 340bhp (say £500 to covert yours)
TD04 -19T plus turbine wheel clip - 370bhp (same price again)
TD04 - Saabflight special - 370bhp - maybe more but we think it spools earlier than the 19T (no idea!)

All are based on the TD04-15T you already have. No-one bothers with other model sources (subaru etc) as nothing fits. You have more options in your config. though.

Next: Keep stock manfold and move to the Garrett 5-bolt outlet. Build with 3" downpipe from turbo back.
Most of these turbos can be 'had' for about $1100

GT28RS 0.64: 360-370 Great turbos - spool very hard from low down. Norman can give pro-cons on this.
GT28RS 0.86 370 ish
GT2871r 0.64 and 0.86 - careful with these. Odd results can occur (small turbine, big compressor) Some good results though.
GT3071r 0.64 - I have this. Should JUST scrape 400bhp. Spools hard from 3k rpm.Clogs a bit past 6k Add fast cams for 450bhp and a great setup.
GT3071r 0.86 - 440bhp on T5 cams. 490bhp on fast cams. Think 3500+ for useful boost but there's a lot of it!

You can do all of these without opening up the engine (aside from adding cams)

This garrett GT ball bearing range is the bread and butter of the big power upgrades and they can be done surprisingly cheaply (relative!) if you are careful on your sourcing. Yes - you can go holset, and get turbos off old buses but you are going on an experimental limb with that....

As your car is light - you can consider fast cams and move the whole power delivery range up with red line near 7k rpm. You can run less boost and just hold it out to get the power. Gearboxes like this a lot better than a little TD04-15T giving a big torque spike at 2500rpm.

At this stage though - it would be easier to ask what the engine budget is (approx) and what your target power/style is and we can suggest some options.

Edit: meant to add: If you want to spin turbo round the other way, just get the exhaust manifold from a GM900 or 9-3. Or make your own :)

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Last edited by faero on Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:13 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:04 am 
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cant add much to all the great advice given, but what a great project 8) makes me want to do one of my own hmm.....
anyhow my only conern would be the sump as the b234r sump is huge and could run into oil starvation issues with it running the oposite way around in the car. it maybe worth considering a sump off a 900 or 9-3 as they are alot more compact and should be fairly easy to baffle.

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