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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:36 pm 
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Location: East Yorkshire
Car Model: C900T.Focus. Berlingo van
I had a quick wipe around in the throttle body a few weeks ago but today I thought I’d have a good look inside and give it a thorough clean. It was quite gummed up so I gave it a good clean. This was just one of the jobs I’ve done and it definitely runs sweeter than ever.

The gremlin is proving difficult to catch though.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:54 pm 
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Location: East Yorkshire
Car Model: C900T.Focus. Berlingo van
From cold it starts with ease and ticks over fine. It’s rattly when cold but quietens down when warmer. The cutting out is different now, it coughs and splutters (no covid19 jokes) and cuts out as you can see in the video clip below. It appears to be running very rich just prior to cutting out judging from the exhaust.

I’m open to suggestions and looking to close this out (Get stalling done) as soon as possible.

The tech-minded experts may see or hear something I’ve missed.

Your thoughts please.

https://youtu.be/OzasNcIErX8


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72183D57-1D65-4A3B-8EE3-3C1381954A37.jpeg
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Last edited by saab96v4 on Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:34 pm 
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Car Model: '03 9-5 2.3 Vector Auto Estate
Did you try changing the coolant temperature sensor as beardydave suggested? It seemed as though it was idling OK then something switched and caused it to go lumpy and stop.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:46 pm 
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Location: East Yorkshire
Car Model: C900T.Focus. Berlingo van
I don’t t have a spare but I’ve ordered a new one. I tested the feed wire and there’s 8 volts to it (I’ll investigate what that means later on) but tried it connected and disconnected with the same result.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 6:58 pm 
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Well let’s hope that we’re closing in on this gremlin.

Could this be another false dawn? It sometimes feels like I’m never going to get to the bottom of this issue.

Fingers crossed.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:25 am 
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But I thought you said it cuts out when hot or cold, so that would rule temp sensor out...
Here's hoping..

:corn:

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:33 am 
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Car Model: 96 V4 & 9-3 Turbo-X
The software may ignore the sensor in the first couple of minutes after start-up, regardless of hot or cold.

It's a possibility, and he's changed almost everything else already!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 7:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:58 pm
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Location: East Yorkshire
Car Model: C900T.Focus. Berlingo van
The car never runs long enough to get up to temperature. It normally won’t start after it cuts out. If it does it’s for a few seconds running rough. Ten minutes later it will start and cut out again. The cooler it is when it starts, the longer it runs.

I’m hoping this may be the answer.

I can’t even nip to the parts shop to buy one.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:01 am 
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I would never rule out double checking the main earth from the battery to the gearbox, and any on the cylinder head when chasing running issues. probably not the problem but I'd check, clean, reassemble anyway. Hope you get it fixed soon. I'd also check charging voltage as a routine.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:08 pm 
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Location: East Yorkshire
Car Model: C900T.Focus. Berlingo van
I’ve stripped, cleaned and refitted all of the earth wires in the engine bay. The only ones that needed special attention was typically the main chassis Earth. I’ve also fitted a brand new alternator which is charging fine.

The coolant temp sensor is on its way and I’ve loosened everything up front soican quickly swap it out when it arrives.

The refitting of the interior is on hold until I fit my alarm system. The one I bought was delayed because some of the components are still in china, I’ve requested a refund so I can order another one. I wish these EBay sellers would be up front about their stock.

Let’s hope I can make some progress with this temp switch.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 4:51 pm 
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I take you don't have an immobiliser on it now then that would cut it out after so long..
Also like a crank sensor, starts when cold and not when warm, but will start again once cooled down..
And as Ian says, make sure earths are 100% on engine, manifold etc.. engine loom uses them..

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:45 am 
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Location: East Yorkshire
Car Model: C900T.Focus. Berlingo van
As far as I’m aware there isn’t an immobiliser on the car, I’ve been checking for signs of one and the only aftermarket wiring I can see is for a sound system. I’ll keep checking as I go along.

I’m fitting an alarm / immobiliser before the car goes into daily use in the next few months. In addition to that I’m fabricating a physical shield to disable the gear lever, handbrake and prevent access to the ignition switch. It’s on the drawing board. I couldn’t cope with it being stolen again.

I’m hoping the coolant sensor arrives soon. Until it does I’ll be keeping sane in this terrible crisis by gardening and carefully taking down the old decking in the sunshine.


Attachments:
F5F5ADD0-2BB8-47B3-B5F2-5E008B5E8391.jpeg
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 11:14 am 
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Car Model: C900T.Focus. Berlingo van
Well that rules out the coolant temperature sensor too .........

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 4:58 pm 
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Car Model: C900T.Focus. Berlingo van
TPS tested again today and the continuity test is normal as per the Bentley manual.

I did notice that the ECU in mine is for a 9000. 0280 000 540 but the car ran better than good before it was stolen.

The Car runs noticeably sweeter as I’ve been going through it changing parts out.

The stall has changed Too, it used to cut out like it had been turned off at the key but now it coughs and splutters, clearly trying to run but stalls after about ten seconds. Fuel?
Where’s the car SOS boys? :corn:


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6848B32A-F659-405B-869D-D478D4E9E7BD.jpeg
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:21 am 
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Can't be much left to check and change..
You've checked all the vacuum lines..
Another ECU might be handy.. or even try your ECU in another car..
Have you tried to keep it running by blipping the throttle before it goes to die, or keep revs up at 2k for 20secs or more to see if it will go passed the cut out time..

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:54 am 
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Location: Longton
Was the fuse box removed when the damage was repaired, or did it show any signs of impact damage? Just seems that if this is a new problem since theft / repair then the key places to be looking are things that have / might have been disturbed?

Just wondering if a wire with an internal break, somewhere in the loom, could cause such issues?

Seems unlikely to be so repeatable, but I have seen broken wires cause remarkably repeatable behavior before, especially if it has to carry any sort of current - you get localized heating at the point of the break which causes the circuit to open. Once cooled it just makes enough contact to close the circuit again...

Pretty thin I know, but options seem to be dwindling.

Would it be worth getting an engine loom from a breaker and just laying it roughly in place to connect to the fuse box, sensors, injectors, ecu etc., just to see if it makes a difference? Not a five minute job, granted.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:22 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:58 pm
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Location: East Yorkshire
Car Model: C900T.Focus. Berlingo van
I’ve got a replacement ECU on its way so that can be discounted or otherwise, but I’m not holding my breath

As for the fuse box area, there appears to be no damage (see pic) in that area, but I’ll closely check the wires in that area. The fact the fuel pump still runs withe the fuse out did throw up some questions earlier, but there must be a second feed to it. I know some cars are fitted with a secondary supply from the oil pressure switch feed.

If this Replacement ECU also proves negative, then it’s going to become forensic, so to speak.

Thanks for your help, it’s really appreciated. I will keep this post updated as I go.

Photo showing repaired area with new Saabits wing and unbelievably a repaired bonnet. The panel beater worked a miracle on it.


Attachments:
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B0224686-C255-403D-8841-24A5FFB16AF2.jpeg [ 142.51 KiB | Viewed 105 times ]

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:49 am 
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Repair looks superb :)

Two thoughts then...

Bear in mind that for the damaged area to end up in that position, it will have flexed inwards substantially more at the point of impact, so definitely look very closely at the fusebox and maybe check continuity of across the fuses / relays during the period when the car won't run.

Secondly re: the second feed to the fuel pump re: oil pressure switch you mention - is it a second feed or does it need to see oil pressure to keep running, i.e. cuts the engine if it doesn't see oil pressure after a certain period of time after starting?

Have you tried with the fuel pump "hotwired" since replacing other parts - in case you've been chasing a cumulative failure, you did say the stall characteristics have changed since swapping some bits - to me the cough cough splutter looks and sounds like loss of fuel pressure...

Best of luck, appreciate how frustrating this must be...

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:10 pm 
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Do you know what the thieves did to start the car without the keys? Was the ignition switch wiring tampered with and if so has it been reinstated to how it should be?

9000 fuel system ECU should work OK on a 900 but 9000's had idle control and 900 (with LH 2.2) did not and from from what I can see your car just retains the 900 auxialliary air valve which is not ECU controlled (like the idle valve is on a 9000). I doubt this is causing your problem though.

Two things concern me, the fact that the car has been converted from an 8 valve and that it may have been tampered with when stolen. I think you try and establish everthing is wired as it should be and that all the ignition and fuel system components are compatible.

For a start can you tell me if the air mass meter you are using is metal or plastic body and what the Bosch pt. no. is?
What injectors are fitted? Bosch or Lucas? Part No.?
Don't change the ECU until we have establishd that these parts are compatible.

Both I and at least one other person have asked if you have changed the distributor for a known working part, did you manage to do this?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 7:22 am 
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Location: East Yorkshire
Car Model: C900T.Focus. Berlingo van
I’ve checked the dizzy over and the wiring is in good order and there is nothing noticeably out of place. The auto spark checked it over weeks ago and said it was ok. Saying that, if I could find another one to try, it could at least be totally ruled out.

The thieves rammed a screwdriver or similar into the lock barrel and forced it. Ive since replaced the barrel for a new one.
The ignition switch itself is in good order and undamaged.

The only wiring issue I have seems to have come to light during its 14 months at the body shop. On my “s” terminal on the ignition switch there is a connector with 3 wires from it. The Brown/white one is the problem. It

is causing issues on the dashboard, all warning lights illuminating. Maybe I should return here and investigate further. I’ll do some wire tracing and see if the body shop have made mistakes reconnecting wires somewhere.

The only plus point is that as long as I stay well, I’ll have plenty of time to devote to it.


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