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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:12 pm 
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Car Model: '99 9-3 ex-LPT '55 Diesel SW
Looking to get into the latest of the V6 XWD 9-3s; probably something like a '10 9-3 Aero XWD, manual box.

But I won't be leaving it stock. Definitely more power, at least stage 3. But I'm struggling to find much info on what the Haldex XWD system is good for torque wise. Don't mind uprating clutch if I need to (in advance/all at the same time if necessary), but need to factor it in really so I know where I am.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:40 pm 
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Car Model: 96 V4 & 9-3 Turbo-X
There's some yank's with big power going through them without any reported issues.

But there's a lot gumpf about the XWD on the internet (mostly Faceache) and it seems to go like this:

Person A: "How often should I replace the oil in the XWD?"
Person B: "Saab say every 18,000 miles, but that only does half the oil using their procedure."
Person C: "I do every 30,000 miles with a full strip and clean"
Person A: "I don't like the half-change, but I don't want to leave it an extra 12,000 miles. I'll do a full strip and clean at 18,000"

In 3 months time someone asked the same question, and Person A responds:
"I do a full strip and clean every 18,000 miles. It's more than Saab specified, but better safe than sorry"
Person D then decides to do every 12,000 for good measure, as they drive it hard and it is chipped.

3 months after that the interval reduces another 6000 miles when the next person asks.

And so the myth that it needs 6k mile oil changes or it explodes begins. :wall:


You could try asking Haldex, or Hirsch. Haldex made it, but they may not be too forthcoming with information, especially as they've been taken over by Borg Warner since making XWD for Saab. Hirsch may know from tuning them.

VW fit them on Quattro Audis, but they switch to a different differential / transfer box for the S6. I think the S3 & S4 still use it though. But I don't know if the clutch is the same as the Saab system or not. And the engines aren't as torquey.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:41 pm 
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Car Model: '99 9-3 ex-LPT '55 Diesel SW
Are there clutch concerns like with the FWD (which from memory every time I see a stage 3 the clutch starts slipping on)?

At the mileage I do in the second car (which this will be), 6K miles would be about every 5 years :D

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:19 pm 
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The main engine/gearbox clutch on all the 2.8s can start slipping at stage 1, the TX has a larger clutch I believe (but I might be wrong on that), but still has similar slippage issues.

I don't think the XWD units suffer from the same problems, but they will have a limit somewhere.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:28 pm 
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Car Model: '99 9-3 ex-LPT '55 Diesel SW
Cool, thanks. Where are people getting 3" downpipes from these days, do you know?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:50 pm 
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The auto gearbox is rated at 450Nm by Saab. No clutch to slip, and you have the option of the tiptronic stick change or the steering wheel buttons. ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:11 pm 
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Car Model: '99 9-3 ex-LPT '55 Diesel SW
That's only 330ftlb, barely a stage 1 remap! I thought these autos were bullet proof?

Anyway, the one I am looking at is manual https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Saab-9-3-2-8 ... 3284682204

The plate would suit you!

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:15 pm 
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Car Model: 96 V4 & 9-3 Turbo-X
Maptun offer 550Nm on their stage 3. Others have taken it further with no ill effects.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:17 pm 
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I think the bigger problem for you is that there is no me9 suite yet, so all your tuning will have to be done the expensive way.


Unless you've bought winols or similar and can now map them, in which case I'll pop over at the weekend if that's alright! ;-)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:48 pm 
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Car Model: '99 9-3 ex-LPT '55 Diesel SW
Lol I'm going to have a chat with Leighton at Aura and see what he is charging. Only down the road, well reputed, and good results.

Doesn't seem as easy to find performance parts these days (full 3", all round bilstein/eibach, maybe some big brakes). Will probably stop short of injectors and turbo.

The worst part of it is all the really expensive mods my current car has, absolutely none of which are transferrable.

I did start off tuning the expensive way, paid the best part of £500 for a stage 1 from Abbott Racing back in the day...

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:25 pm 
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Car Model: 96 V4 & 9-3 Turbo-X
I had the same problem with all the performance parts I'd bought for my vert. And I hadn't gone nearly as far as you.

People just arent tuning cars to the same extent these days.

Maptun do parts for them.
do88 parts are very good quality.
I believe Albert666 can put a downpipe together for the xwd v6
Theres also places in the states like Genuine Saab and Chuck Beaverton Motor Works.

Suspension is a tricky one, as it needs stiffer rear springs and dampers than fwd. Standard it has self levelling dampers. Maptun do a version of their coil over kit for the xwd.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:00 pm 
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Car Model: Saab 9000 aero
As already stated XWD system will be fine as will the gearbox. I have read a few build threads mainly from across the ''£'' as a result I would say a clutch will be needed.
Under bonnet temps seem to be an issue, not just from the point of increasing intake temps but also reports of wiring becoming brittle. If I were to tune my TX (which I won’t be doing) I would start by factoring in the cost of ceramic coating the exhaust manifolds, turbo, down and mid pipe. I would also look at modifying intake system larger intercooler etc and the use of heat reflective materials.
Ultimately it will depend on how far you want to go and what you want to use the car for.

A modified 2.8 9-3 does appeal so if you do go ahead I will follow your progress closely.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:08 pm 
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Car Model: '99 9-3 ex-LPT '55 Diesel SW
Well I don't want it to be slower than my current car, that is for sure.

I'm wondering about the similarities between the cores on the TD04s on the c9-3 and this one. They are both TD04HL 15T aren't they?

Just wondering whether getting the compressor housing on a turbo off a 2.8 machined might allow me to drop the CHRA from my Turbo Technics hybrid straight in. Would make the most of my existing spend. Are you able to report how the oil and water lines feed in to the CHRA on the 2.8? It's a square on the old turbo for want of a better description, with oil in on the top, oil out on the bottom, and water in and out on opposite sides. I've already got braded oil feed and chopped and shut coolant lines, so not too worried about being able to bodge those things if they aren't oriented the same on the V6.

Why does no-one seem to use Seimens Decca 630s on these 2.8s? I already own 4, so would be easier (cheaper) to buy 2 more than 6 of something else.

I'm going completely off topic at the moment, but who knows what about exhausts on these things? I know that on a c9-3 you need a 3" downpipe to go stage 3 up, and ideally 3" straight through (which is comprised of the long straigh tmid section, the windy over the axle rear section, and a back box) to max it.

But these are a mystery to me. Nowhere seems to do 3" downpipes off the shelf apart from Genuinesaab in the states, and even that seems to drop to 2.5" for the join to the mid section (which sucks- what is the point of 3" if you're strangling it in the middle?). How far does that take us? I can't even see exhaust parts for the XWD on GSF or ECP to work out how many bits the exhaust is made of. Neos don't list anything for the XWD at all.

But are they even necessary on these cars? Maptun don't seem to sell anything at all in 3" for these cars, and even on their 340BHP package all the seem to offer for the exhaust is a "Maptun mid-pipe"; they make no mention of the diameter of this, and they don't do anything at all with the downpipe.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:14 pm 
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Car Model: '99 9-3 ex-LPT '55 Diesel SW
SaabnScotland wrote:
Under bonnet temps seem to be an issue, not just from the point of increasing intake temps but also reports of wiring becoming brittle.


Yeah I'm reading that rad upgrade is as important as IC upgrade. I'm not averse to the odd bonnet grille if necessary.

Personally all these £500 DO88 ICs I've seen I've never been convinced about - on my old car I've always just dropped the biggest IC I can fit in the space available and cobbled together the pipework out of bits and bobs from the shed.

I have taken the whole front end off my diesel sportwagon to change the turbo, and noted the very regimented series of rads & coolers (oil, air con, IC, rad, IIRC). That really strict setup works well with the stock devices, but I'm wondering whether all the racks and metalwork comprising the frames that holds all these things in their place is more trouble that it's worth when upgrading and perhaps I should cut it all out and move away from it. My IC on my c9-3 is held in by a pair or threaded metal bars that go straight up and bolt through a couple of holes I've drilled in the slam panel. Might have to have a play with all this with the bumper off and the grinder out.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:33 pm 
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Car Model: 93 Aero 2.8T cabrio
beardydave wrote:
I don't think the XWD units suffer from the same problems, but they will have a limit somewhere.

250mm vs 240mm so yes - correct.

Jules_ht wrote:
But are [3" downpipes] even necessary on these cars? Maptun don't seem to sell anything at all in 3" for these cars, and even on their 340BHP package all the seem to offer for the exhaust is a "Maptun mid-pipe"; they make no mention of the diameter of this, and they don't do anything at all with the downpipe.


Not for gains of up to 50hp or so. A stronger actuator is required to hold the boost as the stock one is poor as we've said before. The Maptun midpipe is 76mm and we all agree that the downpipe from turbo to midpipe is the most restrictive. Therefore for gains approaching 70-80hp you'll need to remove that restriction. If you can't find a 3" downpipe then smash the internals out of the cat by the turbo and remap to suit :D

Intercooler upgrade is important to maintain the gains.

Personally I'm not hugely concerned about the radiator in mine. If you create a front mount intercooler, you free up some space around the radiator and it breathes a little easier. I run 90-95C when driving spiritedly and it'll rise to 108-110 when what for a longer period of time.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:38 pm 
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Jules_ht wrote:
But I'm struggling to find much info on what the Haldex XWD system is good for torque wise.


have a chat with thorney:
https://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/pro ... x-upgrade/

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:34 pm 
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Autobox holds 469lbft no issues thus far
Manual you will need a cg motorsportsa clutch

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:37 pm 
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Car Model: 9-3 Aero 2.8T
Aura seem to be getting some really big numbers from standard 2.8's with just a map, but they never seem to mention heat being a problem, i have asked a couple of times on various posts without a reply, also someone questioned the power being too much for the torque converter to cope with, and from memory they were told well it's your choice really? obviously won't be an issue on a manual car.

Saying that, plenty seem very happy with their work.

Darren Lintorn at AP tuning is pretty knowledgeable, and very helpful, i am sure he would be happy to chat with you, give you another point of view.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:41 pm 
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I'm told that the upgrade that Thorney do, while perfectly fine, is actually done by sending the unit to Haldex in The Netherlands. The upgrade is fitting the parts that are OE on new Insignias.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:42 pm 
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Nate wrote:
Autobox holds 469lbft no issues thus far
Manual you will need a cg motorsportsa clutch


Even on the XWD (which has a different clutch to the FWD)? There don't seem to have been many manual XWD that have gone past just a remap, about. I see "Scott"'s TX (which sounds like a manual) on Aura's FB page, but no details really other than the turbo, and I can't obviously see from the FB page who the owner is.

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