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PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:55 pm 
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Location: Milton Keynes UK
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Hi.

I have recently bought a 1998 9-5 2.3t Ecoturbo and love it.

I have however noticed that when the engine is cold there is quite a lot of smoke when the turbo comes in.

Is this anything to worry about?? Once the car is up to temperature there is no smoke whatsoever.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Paul


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 11:46 am 
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Full Pressure Turbo
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Blue or white smoke?

Blue = oil burning
White = water burning

I believe this is a common problem on the earlier 9-5s. Possibly related to poor breather system and/or degrading of turbo oil seals. Does the car suffer any other symptoms?

Could likely end up needing a new turbo...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:08 pm 
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Hi, Thanks for the reply


The Smoke is blue. My first thought was the turbo seals as they went on my 900 turbo a few years back. What confused me though is that once the car is up to temperature there is absolutely no smoke whatsoever.

It is defiantly getting worse though. This morning I started the car blipped the throttle - only about 3000 revs and there was so much smoke the car practically disappeared.

Could it be anything other than the turbo. I don’t mind replacing the turbo if it is defiantly that....

Thanks for you help

Paul

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:26 pm 
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Cheapest and first port of call (if not already done) would be the new PCV system, as found here:

http://www.elkparts.com/saab-93-m9802/engine/seals-etc/crankcase-ventilation-fix-kitbrsaab-95-20-23-m9803-saab-93-m0002.p3295.html


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:03 pm 
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prmacb wrote:
...What confused me though is that once the car is up to temperature there is absolutely no smoke whatsoever...

Thought about this and did a bit of web trawling, found this comment from a US forum:

Some Americanist wrote:
if the coolant flow turbo is reduced, which results in the temperature becoming so high that the engine oil builds carbon deposits around the turbine-side bearing. Over time these deposits reduce the oil flow through the bearing, which means that engine oil is forced past the turbine shaft seal and out into the exhaust pipe, resulting in blue smoke.

This makes a bit of sense. The 9-5 smoky start-up is a known issue and can be found all over google. The turbo may still last years like this, or may not...

Do you have any prior knowledge of "Sludging"? As this is a real engine killer, might be worth having the PCV kit and sump drop done and see if this remedies the issue, before spending money on a new turbo.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:13 pm 
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Thanks for your help. I will have a look at the condition of the hoses tonight.

One thing did ocur to me though, this all started when I topped up the oil on Monday.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:16 pm 
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prmacb wrote:
Thanks for your help. I will have a look at the condition of the hoses tonight.

One thing did ocur to me though, this all started when I topped up the oil on Monday.


What oil did you 'top up' with? Was it the same as the oil that was already there?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:19 pm 
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yes magnatec

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:16 pm 
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Hi,

I have just had a look at the breather hoses and they have been replaced. They look new.

If it was the turbo seals would it stop when the engine is hot?

Paul

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2002 LWB Shogun 3.5GDI (for the kids, dog and caravan)
2005 Mazda RX-8 231bhp


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:16 am 
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prmacb wrote:
If it was the turbo seals would it stop when the engine is hot?
Yes, I believe this is a classic symptom, could be wrong though.

You say you topped up the oil recently and that is when it started. Hmmm, sounds very coincidental - so much so that maybe the two could be linked.

Any chance you might have accidently overfilled the oil? Or perhaps the grade of oil you used to top-up was too thin, allowing it to seep through the turbo seals, whereas the oil old was thicker and did not?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 3:30 pm 
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Hi,

Yes I think it is a coincidence as well.

I am 99% sure it wasn’t overfilled and the oil was the same as i was told was in the car when I bought it.

Looks like the next step is to try and find a 2nd hand turbo.. Do you know what turbo I am looking for?

Thanks again for your help

Paul

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2002 LWB Shogun 3.5GDI (for the kids, dog and caravan)
2005 Mazda RX-8 231bhp


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:15 pm 
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Replacing turbos is outside of my knowledge, however if you’re sure you need to replace it try the “Parts Required” section on this board. Just list the model, year and engine size – I expect someone will be able to help you out.

But, the occurrence of the problem and the action of topping up the oil are too coincidental for me. My skint-flint nature would make me pursue the cheapest possible fix first and hope for the best. So, I’d suggest trying an oil and filter change using SAAB components as the first port of call, before swapping something as major and expensive as the turbo.

These engines are very choosy about oil - Fully synthetic only and regular changes, but they perform great when treated right.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:44 pm 
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OK, The Saga continues,

I have just been out and started the Saab as it has been sitting since Friday night and to my amassment there was no smoke at all, not even a little bit. It seems to have completely fixed itself!!!!

The only thing that has changed is that I filled it up with Petrol on the way home from work on Friday.
Could it have been a bad batch of petrol???

Well I’m just pleased I didn’t start pulling bits off it this weekend.

I will keep an eye on it this week but fingers crossed.

Thanks again for your help
Paul

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2002 LWB Shogun 3.5GDI (for the kids, dog and caravan)
2005 Mazda RX-8 231bhp


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:32 am 
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Best possible outcome, fixed without requiring money or effort :) But, have you checked to make sure there is still oil in the car - just in case thats the reason you have no smoke?

The only plausible answers that I can think for this conundrum would be:

1.) The new oil was somehow passing through the turbo oil seals and now for some reason it cannot do this.
2.) The oil level was slightly overfilled and excess oil was forced into combustion and has now been burnt away.

Happy SAABing!!!!!


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