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PostPosted: Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:43 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 11:19 am
Posts: 23
Location: The Cronx
Car Model: 9-5 HOT Aero Wagon
Hi all,

So, the short question is:
Why would unscrewing the top cap of my Maptun R/C dump valve 2 turns (I assume reducing the preload on the spring) improve boost and throttle response? Is this a sign of a vacuum leak further back meaning that the vacuum isn't strong enough when the valve spring is fully preloaded and if so where should I be looking? As far as I'm aware the Maptun DV is notmeant to be adjustable, is that correct?

Background:
I have a Maptun aftermarket R/C dump valve fitted (original Bosch one failed) and lately I've noticed that there seems to be a loss of boost when the system is under pressure. While investigating I noticed the top cap on the DV was slightly loose so I tightened it. This made performance worse, so I wound it back two turns and it seemed to boost much more freely.

I've recently (in the last 6 months/7000 miles) replaced the vac hoses, the intercooler hoses, the BCV, wastegate actuator and cobra seal and V clamp. I'm going to investigate these again tomorrow rather than assume they're fine, but anything else I should be looking at?

Thanks,
Tony

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PostPosted: Wed May 01, 2019 11:33 am 
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Location: The Cronx
Car Model: 9-5 HOT Aero Wagon
OK so, ignore the original post above, think the top cap loosening was creating a makeshift bleed valve :D

Dump valve cleaned up and replaced, intercooler hoses on tight and no leaks.
Torque app is showing -9.5psi at idle and won't boost above 7.8psi. My brother's almost identical 9-5 aero is showing a healthy -7.4psi at idle and 14psi at full pressure so I know the app is reading within range.

When driving the car boosts best when throttle is pressed progressively, if firm pressure is put on throttle there is a noticeable reduction in power. Overall feeling of resistance when accelerating.

Does this sound like an inlet air leak? Worth noting that the most recent part replaced was the wastegate actuator, I have a set this up as best I can (offset approx 2mm) but hard to dial it in with this issue and this predated the actuator install anyway. However, I could have upset something else obvious in the process.

Thanks!
T

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PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:10 pm
Posts: 248
Location: East Kent
Car Model: 2002 9-5 (x2), CorradoVR6Storm
Your engine seems to be retarding ignition timing when you push hard on the accelerator.

Check for fault codes. Check the vacuum lines.

Warm the engine up. Disconnect the battery and do a reset. Reprogramme the ECU by taking it out for 35-40 mins, gradually building up to a point where you can do a full wide open throttle run.

If it still continues to behave like it did before, you have a hard fault which should throw a code. If you don't have access to a code reader, buy an ODB ELM 327 (IIRC) adaptor, plug it into the ODB port and scan for errors. A Bluetooth connection on that reader will communicate with an Android app or a windows app that will come with the adaptor. Its not hard to install and learn to use.


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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 2:31 pm 
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Location: The Cronx
Car Model: 9-5 HOT Aero Wagon
Cheers BGomes 8)

Found the culprit in the end and it reminded me (again!) why you should NEVER assume something is working fine. Solved with the bolt mod!
Had a new EVAP system put in about a year ago so assumed there would be no issue there, but lo and behold, bolt into the EVAP pipe from the boost controller and normal service has resumed.

Still down on boost by about 1psi with signs of a slight leak (running -8psi at idle) but I noticed how soft the BPS hoses are compared to my bro's and the hose to the compressor practically falls off the nipple of it's own accord so I've got a new set on order and I think the system will be tight then /prays

T

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PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 8:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 9:10 pm
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Location: East Kent
Car Model: 2002 9-5 (x2), CorradoVR6Storm
If you have the time, check the intercooler (IC) hoses - if you aren't using silicone hoses there they tend to collapse and leak. If you've done more than 120,000 - and have the time - pull the IC out, drop half a litre of safe solvent into it and ***shake, shake shake **it all about for some 10 mins - it builds the deltoids and brings colour to your cheeks. If it doesn't - repeat the process. :lol:

Empty out, let it rest in the sun for an hour. If you find more than a tablespoon of oil coming out, check the turbo cartridge for play.

Sort out your vacuum hoses whilst the IC is drying out. Check all the PCV hoses as well, making sure there isn't a fracture at one of the valves.

Drop the IC back in, fit. Replace the large o ring that sits on the throttle body intake, the one which seals the hard black plastic diagonal intake pipe. Make sure that intake is tight. Run the engine till warm. Don't put any load on the engine until the engine is hot and running for 15 mins. The remaining solvent will evacuate through the throttle body safely.

This pretty much sums up what worked on both our 9-5s.


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:09 am 
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Location: The Cronx
Car Model: 9-5 HOT Aero Wagon
Cheers , replaced the hoses a couple of months back, but IC is definitely in need of changing, car's at 180k now and I'm pretty sure it's the original looking at the history! Will mention that cleaning method to my brother though as his is just about to hit 120k

Cheers again!

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 9:22 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:39 am
Posts: 40788
Location: SW Herts
Car Model: 9-5 Aero est. 9-3 Carlsson
The bolt mod on the 9-5 is not really a good solution. All it does is remove one of the two non-return valves in the EVAP system and tricks the turbo valve.

Saab did the job properly in 2004. Follow the pipe you blocked down alongside the cobra to the tee piece. Remove the tee and put a straight through pipe. Remove the bolt and reconnect. You should then have a single pipe connected from the top (where you blocked it) down to the cobra. Then block the loose pipe, or follow it back to the tee at the other end and remove the whole pipe with the non-return pipe, straight jointing through the second tee.

If you still have problems, the other non-return valve may be faulty. My car is 2007 and already has the newer system as done at the factory. The single valve that I have is buried in foam insulation beside the power steering reservoir..

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 1:45 pm 
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Location: The Cronx
Car Model: 9-5 HOT Aero Wagon
Cheers sgould, yeah I remember someone doing this to theirs on one of the other threads I'd read, will take a look and check the other valve too.

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:19 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:39 am
Posts: 40788
Location: SW Herts
Car Model: 9-5 Aero est. 9-3 Carlsson
I'm at home now and have the pictures!

This is the pipe you need to remove.

Attachment:
EVAP mod.png
EVAP mod.png [ 35.79 KiB | Viewed 691 times ]



And this is the single non-return valve on my 2007 car.

Attachment:
DSC04455.JPG
DSC04455.JPG [ 112.12 KiB | Viewed 691 times ]



I think this is where yours is. It's a random picture from a car I sold years ago, but it's in the same place...

Attachment:
DSC02546.jpg
DSC02546.jpg [ 52.94 KiB | Viewed 691 times ]

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:54 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:23 pm
Posts: 1911
Location: Sussex
Car Model: '04 9-5 Aero est., '97 9K Aero
That NRV by the power steering res. - I found one stuck open on a 2006 car last week. Awkward to replace due to the moulded rigid plastic tube, my suggested solution is fuel hose for the full length, evap valve to TB, and an aftermarket valve. I use aluminium ones from eBay for about £4 but I check them frequently as they are not trustworthy.


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 1:16 pm 
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Location: The Cronx
Car Model: 9-5 HOT Aero Wagon
Great, thanks guys.

Have removed the t-piece completely and run a hose straight from the valve to the cobra. The EVAP hose has now been plugged with a bolt.
Found the check valve (it's actually just behind the headlight on mine) but if I've blocked off the hose will I even need to replace/remove this section?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 11:19 am
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Location: The Cronx
Car Model: 9-5 HOT Aero Wagon
Just wanted a few opinions on the current boost values I'm getting.

Having followed all of the advice car is pulling stronger than ever and throttle response is massively improved which I'm very pleased with.
However, compared to my Bro's 9-5 the throttle still feels a little resistant, like it's not boosting fully freely.

My Torque App is showing -8.6psi at idle and max boost is 13.2psi. On my bro's it's showing -7.4 and 14.7 respectively.
So effectively the range is identical but approx. 1psi less (assuming that's how it works once you go into negative pressure)

Any ideas what could be causing this, or does that look right albeit weird and do I need to get over myself? :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 6754
Location: Queenborough, Kent
Car Model: 9k, 9-5 Aero & a Jaaag
Double-check near the power steering reservoir, as (unless it’s been replaced) the non-return valve near the headlight is the one in the second leg (that you ideally need to eliminate).

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:19 pm 
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Ah OK cool, will do, thanks 8)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:23 pm 
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Location: The Cronx
Car Model: 9-5 HOT Aero Wagon
Just to clarify, when you say eliminate do you mean remove it completely or just check it's functioning?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:24 pm 
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Location: Queenborough, Kent
Car Model: 9k, 9-5 Aero & a Jaaag
Remove completely - see the post earlier in this thread from sgould - the one with the diagram :-)

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:35 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:39 am
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Location: SW Herts
Car Model: 9-5 Aero est. 9-3 Carlsson
Are you sure? That valve is the one that has stayed in my car. Saab removed the other one!! :o

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:57 pm 
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Location: Queenborough, Kent
Car Model: 9k, 9-5 Aero & a Jaaag
Perhaps my memory is failing me, but I'm 99% sure the one which stays in place (located near the power steering reservoir) is between the purge solenoid and throttle body, the one to be eliminated is part of the second leg which tees into this line and connects to the cobra pipe (as highlighted in red in the diagram above). Can't check though, as my current 9-5 is a 2005 model year - so therefore doesn't have it ...

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:24 pm 
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Location: Royal Tunbridge Wells
Car Model: '03 9-5 2.3 Vector Auto Estate
When I did the mod on mine (due to a split connection behind the O/s headlight) I removed the T connection in the pipe to the inlet pipe and replaced with a straight connector. I also removed the hard line from there with the T to the Evap valve and through to the TB. This was replaced with petrol grade piping from the Evap valve to the TB with a replacement NRV in it (the one by the power steering reservoir), effectively making it like a post '04 car. (and basically as described by Cardboard Cutout above). It is a bit tough getting the hard line out but easy to replace with petrol pipe.

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'03 Saab 9-5 2.3t Vector Estate Auto Noob Stg 1
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:30 pm 
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Car Model: 9-5 HOT Aero Wagon
Thanks all, I've blocked that pipe off and run hose straight from the top port of the BCV to the cobra, but I haven't completely deleted that pipe so will remove that too.

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