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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:25 pm
Posts: 12
Car Model: 9-5 Linear TiD Estate
Hi all,

first post here - had the above car for around a year now and over the last couple of months it's developed a problem whereby it intermittently suffers from loss of power. It's almost as if the turbo is not kicking in or there's a rev limiter in place. When it happens, all gears are affected.

I've tried to figure out if it happens after particular driving conditions but there's really no rhyme nor reason to when it happens - it can happen at any point of any journey. I can be cruising at 70 on the motorway and go to overtake something and it happens. Or I could be pulling out of a junction and it happens. Parking up and turning off for 5-10 minutes usually makes the problem go away, albeit temporarily.

It used to happen infrequently but now it's every every journey.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Kim


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 7:45 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:25 pm
Posts: 12
Car Model: 9-5 Linear TiD Estate
Anyone please?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:42 pm 
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Light Pressure Turbo
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Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 8:07 pm
Posts: 398
Car Model: '01 9-3 convertible 08 9-3 SSW
1.9 or 2.2 engine?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 10:02 pm 
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Light Pressure Turbo

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:22 pm
Posts: 388
Location: East Dorset
Car Model: 9-5 9-3SSx2 Sonett T16S 9000
2.2 at that age.

Tricky one. You don't have an engine warnng light on? Any black smoke?

If not, I would probably start by cleaning the EGR valve and MAP sensor. They are under the plastic cover at the front of the engine. Lots of guides and pics on here.

From there, you need to check all of the turbo intake hoses for leaks. Also the turbo wastegate and actuator have been known to fail meaning it won't boost. Check all the vacuum lines whilst on this. I would have thought the EML would be on.

I don't think the fuel side is your problem at this stage, but any more info would be useful for us.....

Good luck!

Duncan


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:49 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:30 pm
Posts: 36
Car Model: 9-3SS
just a thought could it be crank position sensor had that problem on GM cars before and did not throw a EML up ?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 9:48 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:25 pm
Posts: 12
Car Model: 9-5 Linear TiD Estate
Thanks for the replies and the advice.

Duncan - I do have an intermittent engine warning light but it doesn't correlate with the power issue - it comes and goes randomly. Also, no black smoke.

I did a little experiment last night going home from work and again this morning going to work and didn't take the car above 2500 revs. This definitely improved things and only on a couple of occasions I lost a little bit of power but nowhere near as bad as before. Also, after coming off the motorway, everything was fine whereas previously I'd still have very little power.

I've also noticed that over the last month my diesel consumption has come down from ~45mpg to ~43mpg - is this because of having to drive the car differently because of the loss of power or is it another effect of the root issue?


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2016 10:10 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:25 pm
Posts: 12
Car Model: 9-5 Linear TiD Estate
Just did a google search and first result up was this previous thread (sorry, should maybe have done this first!):

http://www.uksaabs.co.uk/UKS/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25451

To me (with my complete lack of knowledge), it certainly seems as if it's the same as my problem? Whatcha think?

Cheers,

Kim


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:04 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:25 pm
Posts: 12
Car Model: 9-5 Linear TiD Estate
A couple of other things I've noticed:

Engine temperature gets up to normal operating temp more quickly than it used to (although it doesn't overheat).

A small-ish press of the accelerator whilst taking my foot off the clutch when changing up seems to improve the situation.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:49 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:25 pm
Posts: 12
Car Model: 9-5 Linear TiD Estate
Hmmm... this is a little strange.

The EML is now permanently on but... the lack of power problem, for the last two trips to and from work, has gone away.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:01 pm 
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Light Pressure Turbo

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:22 pm
Posts: 388
Location: East Dorset
Car Model: 9-5 9-3SSx2 Sonett T16S 9000
The lack of power problem might have been cured by the EML and the ECU now in limp home mode. It is doing its' best to keep you on the road. Lmp home seems to make no difference on the 2.2, it carries on as normal.

There is a good chance the EGR is now stuck shut (hopefully) and a good clean will sort it. Get a can of carb cleaner, whip out the EGR and fill the lid of the carb cleaner can with fluid and balance the EGR on top of it for at least 30 mins, preferrably longer. Try to move the plunger in and out whilst you keep spraying the carb cleaner. I can normally get mine to start to shine inside. You will need a torx socket to remove it and big pliers are useful to remove the coolant pipes, although you only get a dribble of coolant come out.

If you can refit it and then clear the EML you might get lucky. Your power loss could have easily been the egr stuck open allowing boost to vanish straight down the exhaust.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:25 pm
Posts: 12
Car Model: 9-5 Linear TiD Estate
Thanks for the reply munchcorp (sorry I didn't respond sooner - haven't been online for a while).

Quick update - a friend who knows more about engines than me (and let's be fair, that's not difficult) had a look at it for me yesterday and there's a little 'throttle' type thing (see the video linked to below) to the side of the EGR that was sticking badly and not operating properly.

Quick spray of that and today the car is back to normal. Forty-mile round trip, all the power I could ask for, EML gone and fuel consumption already up by 2mpg. Gonna see how it goes over the next couple of days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22jYEZAlkaE


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:45 pm 
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Light Pressure Turbo

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:22 pm
Posts: 388
Location: East Dorset
Car Model: 9-5 9-3SSx2 Sonett T16S 9000
Ah, ha!

You should have a plastic cover over that (I think mine is light grey) to cover the linkages. They are the EGR activating and I would definitely recommend whipping out the EGR and giving it a clean to within an inch of its' life.

That plastic cover, (with any luck) might be residing in the depths of the engine bay, or on the plastic undertray at the bottom of the engine.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:25 pm
Posts: 12
Car Model: 9-5 Linear TiD Estate
Yes, there was a plastic cover which just popped off easily enough.

Unfortunately, time didn't permit taking the EGR out on the weekend but it is definitely on the list of 'things to do at the earliest possibility'.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 10:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:25 pm
Posts: 12
Car Model: 9-5 Linear TiD Estate
Hi again (and apologies for the mini-necro post),

Car has been running fine since last July... until about two weeks ago when the problem re-appeared.

I've lubricated what I did last time but performance has only returned for a day or two and then gone again.

Can someone please confirm that the actual EGR valve is the black cylindrical part at the bottom of picture 'EGR valve 2' with 'SONCEBOZ' written on it (as can be seen in picture 'EGR valve 3') and that this is what needs to come off to be cleaned?

Also, what is the part shown in picture 'EGR valve 4'? It also has a small 'throttle' type valve on the side of it which I've lubricated and was wondering whether it, too, has to be removed and cleaned.

Attachment:
EGR valve 2.jpg
EGR valve 2.jpg [ 38.98 KiB | Viewed 617 times ]

Attachment:
EGR valve 3.jpg
EGR valve 3.jpg [ 175.42 KiB | Viewed 617 times ]

Attachment:
EGR valve 4.jpg
EGR valve 4.jpg [ 109.98 KiB | Viewed 617 times ]


Cheers,

Kim


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:08 pm 
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Light Pressure Turbo

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:22 pm
Posts: 388
Location: East Dorset
Car Model: 9-5 9-3SSx2 Sonett T16S 9000
Hi Kim,

Yes, the black cylindrical part is indeed the EGR. To be honest, I clean mine every 6 months, so it could just have caked up with carbon. Get a can of Carb Cleaner and give it a good clean. When I get a bad one, I fill the plastic cap of the carb cleaner aerosol up with fluid and balance the EGR in it for 30 mins. It comes cleaner faster. There is supposed to be a little rubber o-ring between it and the manifold, take that off before cleaning. Most have been lost or fallen apart by now. I have run a car without one for a year and it appeared to make no difference!

The item in picture 4 is one of the vacuum actuators for the first swirl flap (like a throttle) inside the inlet manifold. It and its' pipework should hold a vacuum. Be warned that those vacuum pipes do go hard and crack and may need replacing with some new pipes. 4mm silicone will do and you can get about 3m on eBay for less than £5 delivered. I haven't heard of anyone cleaning them, but I could be wrong.....

On the opposite side of the inlet manifold to that actuator, there is a little Bosch sensor with an electrical connector sandwiched between the manifold and the rocker cover. That is worth cleaning too with a bit of carb cleaner.

Good luck,

Duncan


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:25 pm
Posts: 12
Car Model: 9-5 Linear TiD Estate
Excellent - thanks again for your continued help Duncan.

One more question (for now, at least!) - is the off-silver coloured thing at the top of 'EGR Valve 2' picture the inlet manifold?

I've read that this 'should' also be stripped and cleaned - what you reckon?

Cheers,

Kim


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:58 pm 
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Light Pressure Turbo

Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:22 pm
Posts: 388
Location: East Dorset
Car Model: 9-5 9-3SSx2 Sonett T16S 9000
Yes, that is the first part of the inlet manifold. You will see the rubber pipe coming up from the depths of the engine bay into it. The second part of the manifold then connects straight to the head.

I don't think you need to clean it out, just clean everything that connects into it! If you can soak the EGR and the MAP sensor, you will fix most of your problems. I haven't read about cleaning them, but it can't hurt. The recommendation is to replace the gasket when you remove it, it is a metal one, so will need careful tightening down but you shouldn't need to replace it. Don't tighten too much as you can strip the threads on the weak alloy.

Just as an aside, you can also get problems with the intercooler leaking air, which can only be checked with a pressure tester. This will be shown up on an engine management light fault. I presume you don't have one at the moment?

Good luck, hope you get somewhere. If you have a Toolstation nearby, their Carb Cleaner is less than £3 a can and works well.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:25 pm
Posts: 12
Car Model: 9-5 Linear TiD Estate
Thanks Duncan.

Just after your last post, I sprayed everything (externally) again and, in the time-honoured fashion of someone who has no idea what their actually doing, gave most things a quick tap with a spanner and all is fine since then - no sluggishness, diesel consumption up from 41mpg to 45 mpg (and still rising daily!). And no engine management light!

I'm going to leave well alone for now.


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