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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:15 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:15 pm
Posts: 30
Car Model: 9-3 Airflow
Afternoon all,
can someone confirm for me that the timing belt can be replaced "without" taking the right front wheel off!
I am asking because on buying the car I paid to have this replaced and the garage assured me that it could be done without removing the wheel.
As anyone replaced or had it replaced this way.

thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:14 pm
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Location: south east london UK
Car Model: 9-3ss aero 2004my
would of thought its insane not too remove that wheel for ease of acess anyways and to remove rch liner once again just to see what your doing

point to note the water pump should be changed at same time as cam belt on these engines mate

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Posts: 152
Car Model: Saab 9-3 08 TTID & 07 TID
Kit needed - 2 x axle stands, jack and block of wood (to support weight of engine) normal tools but will also need torx sockets and 'male' bits. New Cam belt and tensioner, new water pump (advisable) new fan belt(may aswell!) and anti-freeze top up.

1) Loosen off wheel nuts on O/S/F wheel, jack car up, put on axle stands then remove front wheel.

2) Once the car is up, get underneath and remove engine tray / belly pan, support weight of engine on jack (with block of wood between engine and jack)

3) Remove air filter box and link pipe, pull off engine cover (good hard pull will get it off) undo the cam cover bolts.

4) Now, with the engine supported, you can start to remove the engine mount, once the first part is off, the cam pully covers will come off. Once off, there is a cast section of the mount that is bolted to the engine block that can come off next.

5) Now the fan belt and fan belt tensioner will be exposed - make a sketch of the route of the belt - (it will save frustration later - no, you will NOT simply just remember the route!!) Take the tension off the belt and remove both the fan belt and tensioner. Now the cam belt and pullies etc will be exposed - again, take a sketch / photo. Get an assistant to put the car in gear and stand on the foot brake - this is to lock the engine as you need to remove the crank shaft fan belt pully. Once removed you will see the crank shaft toothed wheel.

6) THIS IS THE CRITICAL POINT - pay attention! If this isn't done correctly, you run the risk of messing up the mechanical timing and destroying the engine!
Turn the engine over by hand via the crank shaft toothed wheel until the notch on the wheel comes into alignment with the notch on the 'semi cover'. I always mark extra points, just to be sure!

7) Now look up at the cam shaft pully - the factory indent should be inline with a mark on the casting in about the 1 o'clock position - if not, turn the engine another revolution and it will then. (I also put another mark on the pully and casting) All the other pullies don't matter what position they are in - the only critical ones are the CRANK AND CAM SHAFT PULLIES.

8) Now slacken off the cam belt tensioner and remove the belt and tensioner. Remove and replace the water pump. Refit new belt and tensioner - set tensioner to max tension (mine was marked with a slot) turn the engine two full revolutions to settle it in and make sure pistons don't meet with valves then slcken off the tensioner to the other mark (mine was a small hole)

REFITTING -

Refitting is the exact reverse - as a note, the engine can be raised / lowered on the jack as needed to allow space - it can be rested on the front sub-frame cross-member to gain better access to the crank pully.

When topping up the coolant, there is a screw on a pipe that allows priming of the cooling system, just needs turning 1 or 2 turns untill water comes out then re-tightening.


Last edited by n_hudson on Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:54 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 8:57 pm
Posts: 51
Car Model: 93 ss Vector Sport TiD
The garage removed the wheel and arch liner when they did mine the other week, otherwise the access is very limited.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 12:08 pm
Posts: 1284
Location: sunny Wiltshire
Car Model: 9-3 TTiD Aero
when I had mine done the wheel arch liner was definitely removed
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I know this because they never put it back on correctly :loco:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:15 pm
Posts: 30
Car Model: 9-3 Airflow
Thanks for all the replies you guys.
I asked the question because a week after collecting the car (after paying for the timing belt to be replaced) I decided to check all the brake linings for wear. On jacking the car up I found that I couldn't get any of the wheels off.
Took it back to the garage where they put the car on a lift and had to use a lump hammer to release the wheels(said they had "welded" themselves to the hub over time due to wet weather) but had now applied Copperslip to the hubs so I wouldn't have the problem again.
When I said that I'd be interested to know how they had replaced the timing belt without taking the wheel and liner off (since it was obvious the wheel had not been off for months) they said that it was possible to do it without taking the wheel off and that was what they had done!!

After receiving your comments and the breakdown of the "normal" way to replace a timing belt do I believe them or do I change the belt myself rather than risk a blow engine.

.Thanks again


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 8:18 pm
Posts: 152
Car Model: Saab 9-3 08 TTID & 07 TID
I know its a bit of a hassle and takes a bit of time, but you could just take the cover off and have a look?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 8:18 pm
Posts: 152
Car Model: Saab 9-3 08 TTID & 07 TID
I just had a look in my haynes manual and they dont mention removing the side cover or wheel...

Maybe it can be done, I just find it easier to see what I'm doing...


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:14 pm
Posts: 7127
Location: south east london UK
Car Model: 9-3ss aero 2004my
did they replace the water pump ?
its a risky gamble indeed not to do so

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:48 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:18 am
Posts: 2061
Location: N.E. England
Car Model: 9-5 TiD, Aero, 9-3 Aero vert
datonyb wrote:
did they replace the water pump ?
its a risky gamble indeed not to do so


I'll go further than that - NOT changing the pump is like playing Irish Roulette (a game played with ALL chambers loaded)

Only this is no laughing matter at all. Average repair cost for a pump failure resulting in a snapped belt is £900.

ANY Z19 in my posession has belt & pump changes every 48,000 miles because I've seen the pumps fail shortly after 50k. That isn't commonplace but it isn't unknown and I don't like taking risks.

Pointing the finger of suspicion isn't something I'd do lightly but I suspect (deeply) that someone has looked at the mileage and the change interval and thought 'it'll be alright' BUT the belt change interval isn't the issue here. I've not seen a Z19 with a snapped belt except through the pump failing prematurely - the water pump is the Achilles heel. I'm not just drawing on SAAB experence - this engine is used extensively in FIATs (including taxis).

Anyone tackling this job would need a fair degree of know-how/experience/confidence and a fair amount of kit - only a masochist would leave the wheel on: it's just a quick buzz with a workshop windy gun.

Roger W

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:15 pm
Posts: 30
Car Model: 9-3 Airflow
Hi guys,
Thanks for the further comments.
I'm now convinced that the belt was never replaced!
As Rodger points out------As a garage with all the kit, why would you NOT remove the wheel when it only takes a few seconds with a windy gun.
If it hadn't been for the wheels "welding" on I would never have suspected anything.
In the meantime I'll check with a few motoring magazines to see if they have come across this method.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:14 pm
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Location: south east london UK
Car Model: 9-3ss aero 2004my
mate the point we are trying to get across
not withstanding the fact of the issue did they con you with no cam belt change
is your first concern should be the water pump
even if it has a new belt
maybe contacting the garage to say youve heard the water pump should have been changed and it will be getting done forthwith

might make them worry that a not so new cambelt will be spotted at that time,and remember they didnt do it

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:51 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 8:57 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Cambs
Car Model: Saab 93 1.9TiD Vector
Anyone know what the rough cost of having the belt, pump, tensioners etc changed on a 1.9 TiD would be? Haven't approached a garage to ask yet. I have the confidence and the tools to do it myself but its just the usual case of finding time. Having only had my 9-3 for a few weeks I have no record of when this job was last done so I'm keen to get it done ASAP.
Also a mate of mine who had an Astra 1.9 CDTi has told me to avoid water pumps with plastic impellers as they can, apparently, become detached from the pump itself meaning the pump spins but the impeller doesn't. First I have heard of this personally so is this a possiblitity or is he talking out his bum???

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:08 pm 
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Location: south east london UK
Car Model: 9-3ss aero 2004my
had a lot of trouble with plastic impellors on the alfa v6
new water pumps were always the metal impellor type

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:03 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:41 am
Posts: 5
Car Model: Saab 9-5 1,9 TID 2007
Hi there

I am about to change the timing belt on my 9-5 1,9 TID.

How about the pullie to the fuelinjectorpump? Don't it need to be aligned or syncronized?

Sorry if my english is bad, I am from Sweden.

Daniel


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:30 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:41 am
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Car Model: Saab 9-5 1,9 TID 2007
Hi there

Doesn't the pulley to the fuelinjector pump need to be aligned or syncronized?

Wondering because I am about to change timing belt on my 9-5 1,9 TID.

Best regards Daniel (sweden)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:30 am 
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Location: Mulbarton,Norfolk
Car Model: TTid's only now :-(
I had one of ours done this month.
Belts, pulleys and pump

It was done from above.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:37 am 
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Location: Mulbarton,Norfolk
Car Model: TTid's only now :-(
turbofever wrote:
Hi there

Doesn't the pulley to the fuelinjector pump need to be aligned or syncronized?

Wondering because I am about to change timing belt on my 9-5 1,9 TID.

Best regards Daniel (sweden)


No, the 1.9's are common rail. the pumps just a pump. It does no timing/injecting

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:41 am
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Car Model: Saab 9-5 1,9 TID 2007
wrighar wrote:
turbofever wrote:
Hi there

Doesn't the pulley to the fuelinjector pump need to be aligned or syncronized?

Wondering because I am about to change timing belt on my 9-5 1,9 TID.

Best regards Daniel (sweden)


No, the 1.9's are common rail. the pumps just a pump. It does no timing/injecting


Ok, thanks a lot, so I just have to worry about the crankshaft, and the two camshafts. If I get the specialtool for
It,.is there something to lock both cams with, I meen two tools?

Daniel


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:25 pm 
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Location: Mulbarton,Norfolk
Car Model: TTid's only now :-(
turbofever wrote:
wrighar wrote:
turbofever wrote:
Hi there

Doesn't the pulley to the fuelinjector pump need to be aligned or syncronized?

Wondering because I am about to change timing belt on my 9-5 1,9 TID.

Best regards Daniel (sweden)


No, the 1.9's are common rail. the pumps just a pump. It does no timing/injecting


Ok, thanks a lot, so I just have to worry about the crankshaft, and the two camshafts. If I get the specialtool for
It,.is there something to lock both cams with, I meen two tools?

Daniel


The proper belt has painted line to align the crank and exhaust cam up.

only 1 cam has a pulley, the other (inlet) is driven off a gear at the other end of the exhaust cam.

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