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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 4:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:28 pm
Posts: 4
Car Models: none yet
Hi Everyone!

With the help of the wonderful folks on this forum, Ive been able to make a decision on which engine I want in my second hand Saab.

Now to figure out what I want to see on the service history, or do myself after I buy it.
I am looking at an '04 95 2.2tid with about 150k miles on the clock.

At that mileage, what would you want to see to have been done, or do yourself?

-Bosch VP44 pump. Should it have been replaced, or is it just a matter of fingers crossed? Is there some sort of diagnostic test I could do presale?
-fuel spill lines. Should they have been replaced with silicone ones? If not, is this something I could DIY myself or is it more a specialist's job?
-Clutch? Should it have been replaced by now? What kind of life do these clutches have?
-DMF? Does it have a dual mass flywheel? If so what kind of life should I expect from them?

Anything else I can check or should have been done at this mileage? Any other diagnostic tests? Is it worth having a compression test done?

Thanks again for all your help!

Many thanks,
Pete


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:22 pm
Posts: 1148
Location: East Dorset
Car Models: 9-5 9-3SSx2 Sonett T16S 9000
Regular oil changes. Preferably less than 12k, although the interval might be 18k ( I can't remember). If the plastic engine undertray has a hole cut in it for the drain plug, walk away. The car has been bodged. I have seen this on two, both had major mechanical problems.
Don't put silicone lines on the spill offs. They need the GM eco hose. I might have some I can sell you if you PM me. You will need some T pieces because you will break them! DIY job. Get a vacuum pump to check their state and only replace when the car takes longer to crank indicating a leak.
Don't touch the fuel pump. If you can visit the car after it has stood overnight, it should start after a couple of cranks. Any more than 5 seconds and you could have problems. Make sure the filter has been replaced and suck the fuel through with a vacuum pump rather than turning the engine to draw it through. That will help the pump last.
You might find the glow plugs and relay have packed up. You will need a code reader to see if the relay is shot. The plugs can be tested and should read about 3ohms. Much higher or no resistance means they are shot. The car starts without much glow plug action unless it is below 0. I only ever see the plug light about 4 times a year.
I did my clutch at 100k, only because I had an oil leak. It was difficult to tell it apart from the new one! Solid flywheel from what I could see. There are people with far more than 150k on the original clutch.
The bigger issues might be rear suspension bushes or subframe bushes. Look for strange tyre wear on the back or a knocking from under your feet for the subframe.
Change brake fluid, PAS and anti freeze. It may also be beneficial to change the gearbox oil, but ensure you remove the filler plug before you do the drain. Fillers have been known to get stuck. You aren't going anywhere with no gear box oil!
Don't worry about the compression test.
Clean the EGR and Manifold pressure sensor. The condition of those will tell you if it has been properly serviced.
If it is to be a keeper, take out the rear wheel arch liners and clean any corrosion. That might stop a welding bill in a couple of years. If the front of the rear arches has rust spots, you might be too late.
I could write lots more, but I will let someone else have a go!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:28 pm
Posts: 4
Car Models: none yet
munchcorp wrote:
Regular oil changes. Preferably less than 12k, although the interval might be 18k ( I can't remember). If the plastic engine undertray has a hole cut in it for the drain plug, walk away. The car has been bodged. I have seen this on two, both had major mechanical problems.


I am in Portugal, and getting a full service history for oil changes is virtually impossible on older cars. Why would a hole cut in the undertray signify mechanical problems? Wouldnt that mean they changed the oil so regularly they cut themselves a hole to do so? ;)

munchcorp wrote:
Don't put silicone lines on the spill offs. They need the GM eco hose. I might have some I can sell you if you PM me. You will need some T pieces because you will break them! DIY job. Get a vacuum pump to check their state and only replace when the car takes longer to crank indicating a leak.
Don't touch the fuel pump. If you can visit the car after it has stood overnight, it should start after a couple of cranks. Any more than 5 seconds and you could have problems. Make sure the filter has been replaced and suck the fuel through with a vacuum pump rather than turning the engine to draw it through. That will help the pump last.


I dont have a vacuum pump, and I wouldnt know where to attach it to test anything! Is it worth buying one to test the spill offs?
I assume the sucking through of fuel is for when I replace the fuel filter, yes?

munchcorp wrote:
The bigger issues might be rear suspension bushes or subframe bushes. Look for strange tyre wear on the back or a knocking from under your feet for the subframe.

Is replacing these bushes a DIY job, or getter get a specialist? How much would a UK garage charge (a complete guess is fine!)

munchcorp wrote:
Clean the EGR and Manifold pressure sensor. The condition of those will tell you if it has been properly serviced.

Now this is interesting! Which is the easiest and quickest to check, so the seller might allow me to do it presale to check the claim of regular services?

Munchcorp, this is extremely helpful. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with some random dutchman on the interwebz! :D


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:08 pm 
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Saab Nut
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Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:22 pm
Posts: 1148
Location: East Dorset
Car Models: 9-5 9-3SSx2 Sonett T16S 9000
The hole in the under tray means someone couldn't be bothered to undo the screws on the undertray. That probably means they couldn't be bothered to do other things, notably checking bushes and the condition of essential bits underneath.

Vacuum pumps are very cheap, about £15. Look for something like this: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... 7NRptAaRTz

Don't let any fluid go into the pump, it will wreck the seals. There is an eco tube which runs back to the pump from the leak off pipes. Pull it off the pump and attach your vacuum pump. If it holds a vacuum, the pipes and injector seals are good. If not you need to do more investigation. You can also push the pipe back on without disturbing the leak off system by doing this. Beware, it is a pain to get off the pump!
The pump is also invaluable for sucking through fuel when you change the filtwr. There is a Schrader valve (tyre valve) on the front of the engine on a metal pipe for this process. You just need the adaptor off an old foot pump.

Bushes are a difficult one. You need to judge them by tyre wear and knocking noises. It is possible to do them, you need a Vectra Rose Bush Removal tool (Sealey VS721 or similar) and some decent bushes. I use Febi ones at about £10 each. A garage might charge £200 for this job.

Fastest to check is the manifold pressure sensor, but you must remove the plastic engine cover and you need Torx bits for that and Torx sockets for the sensor. Generally you need to hold the Torx socket in pliers to remove it as there isn't much room. If it looks clean someone may have done it, or it hasn't had a hard life. You should be able to see through the little frame, if it is blocked with black gunk other bits may also be caked up.

It is well worth a hard acceleration run or two, perhaps get the seller to do it while you look out of the rear. The cars don't smoke too much unless they are poorly serviced. You can correct much of it with cleaning bits like the sensors and EGR.

As for the advice, that is what UKSaabs is for. Many have helped me over the years, so I am just passing it on.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:24 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:32 pm
Posts: 6258
Location: Glenrothes, Fife
Car Models: 95, 99, 900, 9000, 93, Sonett
Petethedutchman wrote:
At that mileage, what would you want to see to have been done, or do yourself?

-Bosch VP44 pump. Should it have been replaced, or is it just a matter of fingers crossed? Is there some sort of diagnostic test I could do presale?
-fuel spill lines. Should they have been replaced with silicone ones? If not, is this something I could DIY myself or is it more a specialist's job?
-Clutch? Should it have been replaced by now? What kind of life do these clutches have?
-DMF? Does it have a dual mass flywheel? If so what kind of life should I expect from them?

Anything else I can check or should have been done at this mileage? Any other diagnostic tests? Is it worth having a compression test done?

These engines can do stratospheric mileages with only routine maintenance. My OG93 is on 285k with no major mechanical failures *touches nearby block of wood*

The Bosch pumps generally run faultlessly, then fail without warning. Some suggest 130k is the approximate lifetime for these pumps, but when/if they do fail, it's usually the ECU unit coupled to the pump, and not the pump itself. These can be removed and sent off for repair much cheaper than replacing the whole pump. Not all give up the ghost at ~130k, it's just the luck of the draw. I feed mine a diet of two stroke mix and Millers Ecomax to provide additional lubrication and keep the pump & injectors happy and quieter.

Fuel spill lines should only be replaced by genuine components, any Vauxhall garage will be able to source the genuine GM set, as variants of the engine was fitted to Astras, Vectras, Omegas, Fronteras, etc etc.

Clutches seem to be quite hard wearing and long lasting. Mine is on it's original clutch believe it or not, and still seems to be fine, regularly towing heavy trailers of earth, bricks, slates, etc around the place with no signs of slippage. I do drive it relatively gently - no full bore off the line standing starts or anything like that.

It isn't a DMF, well not in the OG93s anyway. I *think* the later 93SS/SW with the 2.2 may have had a DMF, but don't quote me on that one.

Other things to consider - check engine mounts, they can wear out and the vibrations become most unpleasant.
Glow plugs are rarely used by these engines, I've only ever seen them light up for a couple of seconds on the very coldest days, so if you never see the light it doesn't mean they are broken.
Oil pressure switches should be considered a service item, they break in the centre and start leaking oil, plus illuminate the oil pressure warning light. Had that happen once on a motorway, that was a most exciting emergency exit up the nearest slip road... cheap nasty GM rubbish.
Intercooler pipes split invisibly behind the upper bend, causing poor running, a lack of boost, and lots of black smoke. If it happens, you'll know!
MAF sensor in inlet ducting gets gummed up and causes poor running / throws a CEL. Worth removing at every service and gently cleaning with electrical contact cleaner. It's delicate so don't go at it with a wire brush...
EGR valve and inlet block on the front of the engine should be removed at least once a year for a proper deep clean to remove all the accumulated carbon and gunk. Lubricate the EGR valve stem with a smear of nickel high temperature grease.
Vacuum lines are worth replacing with silicon, they perish and a split will leave you with no turbo - drove mine once from Thurso to Edinburgh with no turbo, that was most exciting going up Berriedale Braes at 15mph in 2nd gear, with a plume of black smoke behind me, and lorries trying to overtake...!

_________________
MY70 95 V4 Van
MY73 95 V4
MY73 Sonett 3
MY83 99GL
MY89 900i S
MY96 9000 Aero
MY02 93 2.2 TiD x2


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 8:52 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:23 pm
Posts: 2243
Location: Sussex
Car Models: '04 9-5 Aero est., '97 9K Aero
“ I do drive it relatively gently - no full bore off the line standing starts or anything like that.”

I did that, as I was a fuel conservation enthusiast in those days (2002 9-3 2.2 TiD) It went into limp mode with the intake elbow and MAF sensor caked up as described. I was told to stop driving it like an old person and thrash it a bit, so I started a regime involving wide open throttle through the gears every 50 miles or so (at the same on ramp near the end of the commute home). A slight increase in fuel usage, but considerably less exhaust smoke, and it kept its innards cleaner.

When the rear crumple zone was successfully tested at 158 K miles, it was still running beautifully, on the original exhaust and clutch, having had no significant surgery of any kind. Brilliant engine.


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