UKSaabs

THE site for UK Saab people!
It is currently Wed Oct 23, 2019 6:53 pm

All times are UTC



Forum rules


When you put a new thread up in the Workshop please put your car's year and model in the thread title, along with just a brief indicator of the problem.

Car Year - Car Model: Brief description of issue. EXAMPLE- 1999 9-3. Problems starting when hot.

Please also add as much information as you can about the problem, to your post.

This will help us to help you, without having to ask basic details such as what car you have.


Threads with non-compliant titles will be moved to The Pit Lane (in which no replies can be posted, but the OP can edit the thread - upon which the thread will be released to the workshop forum)

Nb. Generic thread titles for truly generic issues that genuinely are not model or variant specific (such as "how do I change the spring in an forge wastegate actuator") are acceptable

**The first 5 posts for new users require individual moderator approval (which they will only get it if they are in line the rules of the forum). Please be patient and allow time for that to happen, and avoid duplicate postings.**



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 75 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:08 pm 
Offline
UKS Encyclopædia G-M
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:39 am
Posts: 40719
Location: SW Herts
Car Model: 9-5 Aero est. 9-3 Carlsson
On the loom side, Yellow is 1. Black at 2 goes to the ECU and Black at 3 goes to some sort of earth, although I can't see the earth point, but it does connect, via a crimp, to the screen on the oxygen sensors and to pin 2 on the coolant temp sensor. But it also connects, again via the crimp, to the ECU...

_________________
.
.
.
.
Everything will be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:17 pm 
Offline
Full Pressure Turbo
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:05 pm
Posts: 785
Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
GeoffR wrote:
masonmjs wrote:
On the subject of the CPS and wiring I have a problem, wiring at the loom according to the WIS indicates 1-Yellow, 2-Black, 3-Black whilst the sensor seems to use different colours, the new one I have is 1-Black, 2-Yellow, 3-White. If you are just changing the sensor then no problem, plug and play as they say, but as mine has been mostly cut off (only the yellow wire from the loom is in position (1), the other two (black) wires have been cut out of the socket and are now connected to White, and a bare wire on the old sensor with spade connectors, I don't know which black I should be connecting to 2 and 3 on the loom end (socket). I am using an old 4-way connector from a 9000 (think it's a headlight connector) which can be modified very little to make it fit the sensor so I need to know which black is which on the loom end wiring.

Can anyone shed any light, maybe the two blacks are not polarity conscious but I would like to confirm before I go connecting it up.

The wiring diagram is in WIS


Hi GeoffR

I can only find the one wiring diagram for the CPS and it just states 1-Yellow, 2-Black, 3- Black, is there another diagram which indicates where these connect to, I could trace it that way. I need to know which black is 2 and which is 3 on the socket because I want to connect them to a substitute socket (with different coloured wire on), I don't have an original socket (not that it makes any difference I would still need to know which black is which).

I must admit, working around the WIS is a bit of a headache right now as I only just got it, I can't honestly see how to get the most from it yet, is there a user guide anywhere ?

Cheers
Mike

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:21 pm 
Offline
Full Pressure Turbo
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:05 pm
Posts: 785
Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
sgould wrote:
On the loom side, Yellow is 1. Black at 2 goes to the ECU and Black at 3 goes to some sort of earth, although I can't see the earth point, but it does connect, via a crimp, to the screen on the oxygen sensors and to pin 2 on the coolant temp sensor. But it also connects, again via the crimp, to the ECU...


Thanks for that, is it safe enough to assume that 3 is an earth then ? as it would be much easier to check that then anywhere else. Had a word with Karl the other day by email and he suggested I check the earths on the engine and that they are sensor earths so it may well be that black at 3 is connected to one of those ? (earths were OK by the way).

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:48 pm 
Offline
Active user
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:14 pm
Posts: 74
Location: N Yorks
Car Model: 9-5 Aero Estates, 9000 Aero
Here's the extract from WIS

Polarity isn't necessarily the issue, the signal to the ECU and earth routes are

Assuming you want to be sure the wiring is correct.........

The best way is to trace the wires back to the ECU connection pins

Terminal 1 from the CPS goes to pin 17
Terminal 2 goes to pin 18
Terminal 3 goes to pin 22

You may be able to check at the ECU connector at the back of the engine on the bulkhead (others may know for certain), otherwise the ECU connector is under the plastic scuttle panel, fiddly to get to but just possible without removing the windscreen wiper arms (and you don't want to get into that)


Attachments:
cps.jpg
cps.jpg [ 17.28 KiB | Viewed 138 times ]
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:55 pm 
Offline
Full Pressure Turbo
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:05 pm
Posts: 785
Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
carrera wrote:
Here's the extract from WIS

Polarity isn't necessarily the issue, the signal to the ECU and earth routes are

Assuming you want to be sure the wiring is correct.........

The best way is to trace the wires back to the ECU connection pins

Terminal 1 from the CPS goes to pin 17
Terminal 2 goes to pin 18
Terminal 3 goes to pin 22

You may be able to check at the ECU connector at the back of the engine on the bulkhead (others may know for certain), otherwise the ECU connector is under the plastic scuttle panel, fiddly to get to but just possible without removing the windscreen wiper arms (and you don't want to get into that)


Thanks Carrera, that's just what I was looking for, a bit difficult to find on my 15" laptop so I guess I missed it. It looks as though Black 3 is indeed an earth then as it is connected to lots of other sensors at J17 before going off to the ECU. I'm hoping it will be easier to trace that than getting at the ECU (been there before, not easy right enough).

Cheers

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:55 pm 
Offline
UKS Encyclopædia G-M
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:39 am
Posts: 40719
Location: SW Herts
Car Model: 9-5 Aero est. 9-3 Carlsson
If you get under the black panel in front of the windscreen you can disconnect the ECU connector and check the connection between pins 18 and 22 on the ECU connector and pins 2 and 3 on the CPS connector.

You may be able to do it more easily by seeing if pin 3 on the CPS connects to the black wire on the coolant temp sensor and there is no connection between pin 2 on CPS and the coolant sensor.

_________________
.
.
.
.
Everything will be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:02 pm 
Offline
UKS Encyclopædia G-M
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:39 am
Posts: 40719
Location: SW Herts
Car Model: 9-5 Aero est. 9-3 Carlsson
To find the full wiring diagram on WIS, go to the menu. Choose "Engine", then "Trionic 7, 4 cyl". Then click on the circuit diagram tab - the 9th one along of the 11). There are three parts. The CPS is item 345 and is on "Part 2/3". Double click on the menu heading for part 2, the circuit diagram will open.

_________________
.
.
.
.
Everything will be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:18 am 
Offline
Full Pressure Turbo
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:05 pm
Posts: 785
Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
sgould wrote:
You may be able to do it more easily by seeing if pin 3 on the CPS connects to the black wire on the coolant temp sensor and there is no connection between pin 2 on CPS and the coolant sensor.


Yes that's what I was intending, I have changed out the ECU previously on this car (it had a Maptune ECU when I bought it) and its enough of a PITA to not want to go there if I can avoid it.

Thanks for the help with the WIS, I found the circuit diagrams OK but was hoping there was a logical way to use the system e.g. select engine, locate the component from the content list then pull up a context related circuit diagram for that item. It seems that the wiring diagrams are just a large diagram split into 3. I'm sure it will get easier the more I use it.

Cheers

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:10 pm 
Offline
Full Pressure Turbo
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:05 pm
Posts: 785
Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
So,

It was the fuel pump in the end, funny as that was my gut feeling from the start really.

Still, the old girl now has a new Fuel Filter, new CPS, new Fuel Pump and sender unit, and fixed wiring for the CPS, got to be a better car than it was a week ago - well chuffed

:D :D

Thanks to all who contributed their knowledge and experience here, it was WELL appreciated.

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:29 pm 
Offline
UKS Encyclopædia G-M
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:39 am
Posts: 40719
Location: SW Herts
Car Model: 9-5 Aero est. 9-3 Carlsson
Well done! :)

A somewhat obscure fault in that it was "sort of" working.

_________________
.
.
.
.
Everything will be OK in the end. If it's not OK, it's not the end...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:22 pm 
Offline
Active user
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:14 pm
Posts: 74
Location: N Yorks
Car Model: 9-5 Aero Estates, 9000 Aero
I'm glad you got it fixed :D

Do you remember this bit

carrera wrote:
How do you know the fuel pump is delivering sufficient pressure ? A little pressure goes along way


You have just wonderfully demonstrated why the "pressing the schrader valve" approach is not informative enough. The system needs pressure and flow to work correctly.

From the initial description I suspected CPS as you had classic symptoms - which is why a good diagnostic approach is important. Now you know your way round better have another look at the fuel rail. 4 easy electrical connectors and two 10mmbolts and she's off.

You now have some spares for diagnostic purposes, keep them in the car.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:15 pm 
Offline
Full Pressure Turbo
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:05 pm
Posts: 785
Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
carrera wrote:
I'm glad you got it fixed :D

Do you remember this bit

carrera wrote:
How do you know the fuel pump is delivering sufficient pressure ? A little pressure goes along way


You have just wonderfully demonstrated why the "pressing the schrader valve" approach is not informative enough. The system needs pressure and flow to work correctly.

From the initial description I suspected CPS as you had classic symptoms - which is why a good diagnostic approach is important. Now you know your way round better have another look at the fuel rail. 4 easy electrical connectors and two 10mmbolts and she's off.

You now have some spares for diagnostic purposes, keep them in the car.


Yes I remember, the trouble here is lack of test gear, I don't have a pressure gauge, or a Tech II, etc etc.

I'm no stranger to a good diagnostic approach, I learned all of that working as a radar technician on aircraft in the RAF for 16 years and then for a further 26 years as an instrument engineer in the oil and gas industry, but without test gear it's all guesswork really, or the blind replacement approach (frequently adopted by garages sadly). Saabs are pretty complicated by design and working on them successfully requires quite a bit of in-depth knowledge of the car and not a little test equipment which I am unlikely ever to have.

I don't have any spares though, the CPS was toast due to the connector and the fuel pump was knackered anyway, the fuel filter was debatably usable but well past it's sell-by date, but that's OK, I do have the comfort of knowing that the three items I replaced should keep the car going for a few more years at least. And I did learn quite a bit in the process so all good.

Cheers

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 6:50 pm 
Offline
UKS Addict
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:47 am
Posts: 6734
Location: Queenborough, Kent
Car Model: 9k, 9-5 Aero & a Jaaag
Glad you got it sorted, always good to know when things are resolved :-)

_________________
'98 9000 2.3T CSE, stage 3
'04 9-5 Aero manual, stage 3
'08 Jaguar XFR


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 8:30 pm 
Offline
Light Pressure Turbo

Joined: Sat May 21, 2016 11:07 pm
Posts: 309
Location: North of Aberdeen
Car Model: 9-5 aero sportwagon
Congrats 8)

Now you've tackled the CPS you'll be warmed up nicely for the oil pressure switch - another simple job that's a nightmare :wall:

I tackled all the well know issues to build in some reliability, worked not bad for the last 12 months but MOT looms and potential bills for £1,500 if I decide to plough on towards 200k miles - on 155k miles, original clutch slipping under full boost and the original suspension has long since had its day.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Oct 12, 2019 7:02 am 
Offline
Full Pressure Turbo
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:05 pm
Posts: 785
Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
scooby dhu wrote:
Congrats 8)

Now you've tackled the CPS you'll be warmed up nicely for the oil pressure switch - another simple job that's a nightmare :wall:

I tackled all the well know issues to build in some reliability, worked not bad for the last 12 months but MOT looms and potential bills for £1,500 if I decide to plough on towards 200k miles - on 155k miles, original clutch slipping under full boost and the original suspension has long since had its day.


Hi Scooby Dhu, thanks.

Yes, I know about that one, replaced that on the last Aero I had at about 150,000, a nightmare as you well pointed out, I ended up cutting a 22 mm in half to be able to get it (or the oxygen sensor) out.

Since I bought mine, not counting the fuel pump, filter and CPS I have had to do most of the nasty jobs on the 9-5 (actually, almost anything in the engine bay is nasty, the 9000 is much nicer to work on) including (not in any particular order) :

1. All four springs and shocks (Eibach B8 set)
2. Drop Links
3. Power Steering pipes
4. Auto gearbox valve solenoids + Transmission CU
5. Brake calipers
6. Rear sub-frame and cross braces
7. Rose Bushes
8. Trailing arm bushes
9. Front subframe bushes
10. Auto box shifter link
11. a/c condenser and drier
12. I intend to replace the rear flexible brake hoses when I get time, got some Hel hoses waiting to fit.

Apart from all that it's been fine :lol: :lol: I should add that I have done more than 35,000 miles in it since June 2017 and it has been fairly reliable (only two break-downs + recovery).

Seriously though, it should be good for another year or two now (fingers crossed), I'm hoping to get back onto the 9000 renovation.

Cheers

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 75 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], Grahamhr, MSN [Bot] and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

follow UKSaabs on Twitter



UKSaabs silhouette logo images by Mark Green www.greenphotos.com
"subsilver2" slightly bodged by UKSaabs for our own use.

:: Disclaimer ::
Comments posted here are the views of their individual authors and are not necessarily shared by the owners of this Web site.
Authors assume all responsibility for comments posted here.

UKSaabs The biggest and best privately owned UK based independent Saab forum for all SAAB enthusiasts.
Whilst we encourage our users to support our advertisers the site wishes to remain independent and therefore does not endorse any particular advertiser(s)
UKSaabs is not affiliated with Saab Cars UK or Saab Automobile AB