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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:05 pm
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
Hoping somebody can help me with advice regarding fitting of serpentine belts on my 1996 9000 CS Anniversary ...

Long story short the car has been sitting idle for around 7 years in France and it broke a tensioner pulley last time I started it. I duly bought the said tensioner pulley at some point (and the idler for safe measure) and fitted those today but I am baffled about the belt.

I have three belts here, one which I presume is the old one I took off (not sure though but it does have cracks in it so a fair assumption), one Dayco 6PH2550 from goodness knows where, and one Mayle belt which I bought at some time.

None of them seem to fit, I have tried the standard method using a 19mm socket and a breaker bar and try as I will (I even tried jacking it to compress the tensioner easier) and with the tensioner fully compressed the belt still won't go on, its about 10mm short of going over the idler pulley which is quite a lot really. This story is the same for the Dayco belt and the 'original' if that is what it was.

The Mayle belt is too long, it's very slightly too slack with the tensioner fully extended so no good realistically. I guess it might be for a 9-5 as I seem to remember buying the long belt for that only to find that it had an idler 'missing'.

I'm at a loss to know what to do next, is it possible that both the Dayco belt and the original are too short (I guess it is possible if it was a non a/c belt that was fitted before (not sure as it's a long time ago when I drove it last) ??

Help !!!!

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'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


Last edited by masonmjs on Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:02 pm
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Location: Aberdeen
Car Model: Saab 9000 aero w/jules-tune
The non a/c belt is way too small, wouldnt get it close to going on so the one that came off would not be a non a/c belt. Have you definately got it going on the right way? I dont fully understand how you are compressing the tensioner, you shouldnt be able to do it with a jack ect, if you dont have the specific tool i have used a spring compressor before to do it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:46 am 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
jopo001 wrote:
The non a/c belt is way too small, wouldnt get it close to going on so the one that came off would not be a non a/c belt. Have you definately got it going on the right way? I dont fully understand how you are compressing the tensioner, you shouldnt be able to do it with a jack ect, if you dont have the specific tool i have used a spring compressor before to do it.


I think it's possible that the old belt was fitted without going around the a/c compressor, it's just a guess as I can't remember if I ever ran the a/c (on cold that is). I have not driven the car on the road since around 2011 so anything is possible and my memory is not what it was then.

There is a way, with a huge block of oak, a bottle jack and a long screwdriver to compress the tensioner, if I get time today I will try it again and take a photo. But even with it fully compressed, the belt wont go within 10mm of fitting onto the idler pulley. With the tensioner fully extended (e.g. in full tension) the belt goes to about half way across the idler pulley so the normal method using the 19mm socket on the tensioner pulley does not get me anywhere near fitting the belt.

I can only believe that the belts are the wrong size at this point, I have looked at the belt diagram online several times and am sure that I have it fitted correctly. I am using this image ...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ppja3dnvkuejbs5/9000%20serpentine%20belt.pdf?dl=0

P.S. I just checked Neo Brothers site and it looks as though the Dayco belt I have is what they recommend for Saab 9000, 94-98 with a/c so I am no closer to understanding why it won't fit.

I'd be interested to know how you used the spring compressor on the tensioner ....

Cheers

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'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:59 am 
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Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:02 pm
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Location: Saabshire
Car Model: Two 97 9000 Aero's 2.3T.
The belts that Bill sells (Saabits) are a perfect fit. I have used them on older and newer 9000's without issue.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:19 am 
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masonmjs wrote:
I can only believe that the belts are the wrong size at this point

Post the size of the belt (6PKxxxx) and I can tell you if it's correct.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:55 am 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
BillJ wrote:
masonmjs wrote:
I can only believe that the belts are the wrong size at this point

Post the size of the belt (6PKxxxx) and I can tell you if it's correct.



Hi Bill, just emailed you, I measured my belt at 255cm, I have not measured the old one but they both look too short by the same measure up against the car.

Cheers
Mike

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:57 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:02 pm
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Location: Aberdeen
Car Model: Saab 9000 aero w/jules-tune
I have the laser type spring compressor like these https://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools ... 9MQAvD_BwE

I put 1 end on each bit of the tensioner end (where the little hook bits are) then slowly tighten while slightly adjusting as if you dont get it 100% the thing will just tighten down on the pulley and wont compress the tensioner.

I have previously tried the method you seem to be using and found it very difficult as i couldnt get it to stay without me holding part of the assembly due to the angle it tries to take.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:04 am 
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masonmjs wrote:
Hi Bill, just emailed you, I measured my belt at 255cm

Hi, Mike. It sounds correct - the belt size for AC-equiopped cars is 6PK2550, which should be 2550mm (255cm) long. However I'll measure one when I get to the office and let you know.
The belt-routing diagram you posted looks correct, from memory.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:07 am 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
BillJ wrote:
masonmjs wrote:
Hi Bill, just emailed you, I measured my belt at 255cm

Hi, Mike. It sounds correct - the belt size for AC-equiopped cars is 6PK2550, which should be 2550mm (255cm) long. However I'll measure one when I get to the office and let you know.
The belt-routing diagram you posted looks correct, from memory.



Thanks Bill, I appreciate the help.

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:08 am 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
jopo001 wrote:
I have the laser type spring compressor like these https://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools ... 9MQAvD_BwE

I put 1 end on each bit of the tensioner end (where the little hook bits are) then slowly tighten while slightly adjusting as if you dont get it 100% the thing will just tighten down on the pulley and wont compress the tensioner.

I have previously tried the method you seem to be using and found it very difficult as i couldnt get it to stay without me holding part of the assembly due to the angle it tries to take.


I have some of those, but not here :wall: , still I can see that if the belt is the right size it should 'almost' be possible to get it on with the tensioner full extended, I imagine the tensioner only moves the pulley by a cm or so ??, mine is a long way away from that.

Thanks for the help by the way .... :D

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'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:23 am 
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Location: Royal Tunbridge Wells
Car Model: '03 9-5 2.3 Vector Auto Estate
I always used to do it with a socket on a 600mm breaker bar, does take a bit of a push with a new tensioner fitted. I had a tool like the Haynes one (a bar with a couple of bolts in it) to hold it but if you have the belt on ready it may not be necessary as you just pull the belt over the last pulley and then release it. I though it moved more than a cm but it was a long time ago now.

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'03 Saab 9-5 2.3t Vector Estate Auto Noob Stg 1
'01 Saab 9-3 2.0t SE Vert
'81 Triumph TR7 DHC


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:37 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:05 pm
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
TWSaab wrote:
I always used to do it with a socket on a 600mm breaker bar, does take a bit of a push with a new tensioner fitted. I had a tool like the Haynes one (a bar with a couple of bolts in it) to hold it but if you have the belt on ready it may not be necessary as you just pull the belt over the last pulley and then release it. I though it moved more than a cm but it was a long time ago now.


Hi Alan,

I am doing this with the car on an axle stand so I have limited clearance under the car, having said that I am using a ratcheted breaker bar which extends to about 500mm I think. I am also trying to do this with a wounded wife (broken collar bone), with me under car on the breaker bar and her trying to fit the belt over the idler pulley. So I can't actually see how far away it is doing it that way.

My other method, using the jack and the screwdriver (wedged into a small recess inboard of the bottom of the tensioner bracket) almost full compresses the tensioner (within about 5-7mm I would say) leaves me still about 10mm away from getting the belt over the idler pulley.

I can't imagine why I am having all this trouble, everybody else manages it somehow :|

Cheers
Mike

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:38 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:05 pm
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
I can feel a 'special tool' manufacture coming on .... :)

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'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:57 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:39 am
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Location: SW Herts
Car Model: 9-5 Aero est. 9-3 Carlsson
I’ve never done anything on a 9000, only a 9-5, but the layout looks similar. There are two idler pulleys. When you replaced one, did you get the right one? I’m nowhere near any info at the moment, but there are two idlers and I think they are different sizes. Did you put a big one on in placer of a smaller one?

This may be complete nonsense, of course. :roll:

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:11 am 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
sgould wrote:
I’ve never done anything on a 9000, only a 9-5, but the layout looks similar. There are two idler pulleys. When you replaced one, did you get the right one? I’m nowhere near any info at the moment, but there are two idlers and I think they are different sizes. Did you put a big one on in placer of a smaller one?

This may be complete nonsense, of course. :roll:


No worries, any suggestions are welcome, there may just be a germ of a good idea there. Anyway, I checked the size of the pulleys against each other (old to new) and they were the same, so no it can't be that, thanks for the suggestion though. For info, I replaced the tensioner pulley with a Neo Brothers NB9930-C and the idler pulley with a NB1625-C (also from Neo), looking at their website these are correct for the location and are the same sizes as the ones that came off the car (only caveat here is that the tensioner pulley was destroyed so I don't know the original diameter of that).

Mike

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'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


Last edited by masonmjs on Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:12 am 
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Mike, the 6PK2550 belt measures 2550mm (255cm) as expected. Sounds like you have something else wrong there.
sgould wrote:
there are two idlers and I think they are different sizes. Did you put a big one on in placer of a smaller one?

Good point. However, I just compared the two pulleys (off the shelf, not on the engine) and they are the same diameter so it's unlikely to be the cause.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:19 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:41 am
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Location: Royal Tunbridge Wells
Car Model: '03 9-5 2.3 Vector Auto Estate
masonmjs wrote:
TWSaab wrote:
I always used to do it with a socket on a 600mm breaker bar, does take a bit of a push with a new tensioner fitted. I had a tool like the Haynes one (a bar with a couple of bolts in it) to hold it but if you have the belt on ready it may not be necessary as you just pull the belt over the last pulley and then release it. I though it moved more than a cm but it was a long time ago now.


Hi Alan,

I am doing this with the car on an axle stand so I have limited clearance under the car, having said that I am using a ratcheted breaker bar which extends to about 500mm I think. I am also trying to do this with a wounded wife (broken collar bone), with me under car on the breaker bar and her trying to fit the belt over the idler pulley. So I can't actually see how far away it is doing it that way.

My other method, using the jack and the screwdriver (wedged into a small recess inboard of the bottom of the tensioner bracket) almost full compresses the tensioner (within about 5-7mm I would say) leaves me still about 10mm away from getting the belt over the idler pulley.

I can't imagine why I am having all this trouble, everybody else manages it somehow :|

Cheers
Mike


I released/compressed the tensioner from the top as I found it easier. The bolt on the tensioner pulley is LH thread so (from memory) using the socket and breaker bar from the top you push towards the bulkhead and it compresses. Of course, with the Saab tool it is all much easier....

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'03 Saab 9-5 2.3t Vector Estate Auto Noob Stg 1
'01 Saab 9-3 2.0t SE Vert
'81 Triumph TR7 DHC


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:57 am 
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This should be a relatively easy and straightforward job for one person in seconds. I use a long (405mm overall) 12 point 19mm wrench. The important thing is it is flat i.e. the ends are not cranked and not offset. You dont have to remove the wing liners or anything. With the car on the ground just go in from the top. The wrench is long enough to give sufficient leverage to compress the tensioner. Slow steady pressur is the key, push too hard and it "locks". Used it loads of times when working in the bay and i want the a/c compressor out of the way. However, if you are changing pulleys and/or fitting a new belt I can't remember now if there is enough space without removing the liners.
masonmjs wrote:
I can feel a 'special tool' manufacture coming on .... :)

I will look up the details of where I sourced the wrench (ebay) if interested.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:29 pm 
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Car Model: 9k, 9-5 Aero & a Jaaag
when fitting the belt on mine I fit it over the idler pulley and alternator section first, slipping it over the A/C or water pump pulley last.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 12:32 pm 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
sounds wrote:
when fitting the belt on mine I fit it over the idler pulley and alternator section first, slipping it over the A/C or water pump pulley last.


Hi Sounds,

Not sure I fancy that way as there is very limited access to the top due to a/c hoses and the expansion tank. I don't want to speak too soon but I think I have cracked it, more to follow !!

Cheers and thanks for the suggestion.

Mike

_________________
'02' 9-5 Aero wagon
'98' 9-5 SE 2.3LPT
'98' 9000 CSE 2.0LPT
'01' 9-5 2.0L LPT
'97' Merc SL500 (oops)


Last edited by masonmjs on Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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