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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 3:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:47 am
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Location: Queenborough, Kent
Car Model: 9k, 9-5 Aero & a Jaaag
I've recently noticed that the A/C on my daily driver isn't too clever, seems to be only mildly cool - but has occasional bursts where it's colder for a few seconds. Setting it to max cooling results in mildly cool air too, if anything it's warmer than when the fan speed is lower. Suspecting the compressor, I've just replaced it with a brand new Nissens unit - however, only 100g of refrigerant was recovered prior to the work being done (the system should hold over 800g). The A/C does work now, however when tested using the recommended procedure (set to LO on both sides) it only got down to about 12.5 degrees C at the centre vent.

I'll look at changing the pollen filter as it looks like that was last done 2 years ago ... but could there be something else amiss here? Blend flaps or similar? As I seem to remember hearing of there being issues with those - which could explain the random occasions when it gets colder.

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'98 9000 2.3T CSE, stage 3
'04 9-5 Aero manual, stage 3
'08 Jaguar XFR


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 3:58 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:20 pm
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Car Model: 1999 9-5 2l SE ESTATE
Guessing you've ruled out the expansion valve?

Whilst you're changing pollen filter, get your hand on the A/C heat exchanger and feel if it's REALLY cold....

Is the fan kicking in on the main A/C rad' when the compressor is working flat out?

Only other thing I'd look at is the temp sensors (internal and in the bumper) but one of those generally shows up on the SID or your heater will be either cooking you or freezing you on normal auto heater mode.


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 7:04 pm 
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Location: Queenborough, Kent
Car Model: 9k, 9-5 Aero & a Jaaag
No, expansion valve is definitely a possibility ... but I want to eliminate the cheaper/easier options first :-)

Tech2 shows that the system pressure does increase to about 12 Bar (or thereabouts), so the compressor is doing something ... there is a difference in temperature between the two pipes running along the chassis leg which confirms this.

So I'm thinking if it's not the pollen filter, I need to check the blend flap arms - and failing that, the expansion valve ... seems odd that it went really cool a couple of times on the way home last week, then reverted back to not so cool again? I'll need to see what it's like on the commute to and from work this week, could a failing expansion valve have moments that it would work?

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'98 9000 2.3T CSE, stage 3
'04 9-5 Aero manual, stage 3
'08 Jaguar XFR


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 9:09 pm 
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Location: Bucks
Car Model: Saab NG 9-5 Aero
I'd replace the pollen filter anyway, my last OG 9-5 worked much better once I replaced the filter.


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PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2019 9:36 pm 
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Light Pressure Turbo

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:20 pm
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Car Model: 1999 9-5 2l SE ESTATE
I'll have an expansion valve if needed (used but good), just PM me and haggle...Also all the other related bits I'm pulling out of my tractor.....


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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2019 8:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:39 am
Posts: 40312
Location: SW Herts
Car Model: 9-5 Aero est. 9-3 Carlsson
The air on on my 2007 is nothing like as cold as on the 9-3. I measured 12 degrees. Then it leaked and got repaired and it’s still 12 degrees.

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 4:29 pm 
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Location: Island of Sodor
Car Model: The Pizza Taxi
Is they variation in temperature as you go round a bend?

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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 7:31 pm 
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Location: Queenborough, Kent
Car Model: 9k, 9-5 Aero & a Jaaag
Not sure, don't think so. But I'll bear it in mind - are you thinking air distribution flap(s) moving perchance?

Pollen filter has arrived though - and will hopefully be fitted tomorrow evening, with flush out of the evaporator drain lines as per WIS ...

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'98 9000 2.3T CSE, stage 3
'04 9-5 Aero manual, stage 3
'08 Jaguar XFR


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PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:10 pm 
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I am thinking flaps moving yes(or anything else), but I don't know the orientation of them.

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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 6:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:09 pm
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Location: Sandwich
Car Model: 2005 9-5 Aero Wagon
I need to look at mine Dan - only cool at present and warm air in the rear/passenger side so apart from re-charge i am thinking flaps though tech 2 says all good and you can hear them working so need to investigate mixer flap on that side first.

Delphi valve here for less than Saab.......

https://www.autodoc.co.uk/car-parts/expansion-valve-10458/saab/9-5/9-5-estate-ys3e/20648-2-3-turbo

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9000 Aero 1995 in black
1994 GM 900
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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 6:38 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:47 am
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Location: Queenborough, Kent
Car Model: 9k, 9-5 Aero & a Jaaag
thanks Mike - warm air in rear is a known issue, see here.

I've already spotted an expansion valve for about that price (once postage is added on ...), I seem to remember stuff takes a while to arrive from that company as they're based in Germany.

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'98 9000 2.3T CSE, stage 3
'04 9-5 Aero manual, stage 3
'08 Jaguar XFR


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 9:38 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:23 pm
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Location: Sussex
Car Model: '04 9-5 Aero est., '97 9K Aero
I got a bit worked up about this last summer and observed these thermometers (which were within a degree of each other when compared) for a couple of months. The sensors were all about 4 inches inside the ducts.

Generally, the outer outlets are about 4˚ warmer than the inners, and the left inner is usually perceptibly cooler than the right inner.

Every now and again for no apparent reason one or both outers goes rogue and rises to mid to high 20s, whilst the inners hardly change. After a few minutes the outers will reduce to "normal" again.

The highest I ever saw on an outer was 44˚ but that was a one-off.

This was all with one person in the car, temperature demanded was several ˚ lower than ambient, and left temp selection automatically mirroring the right.

I changed the cabin air filter without noticing any benefit.

First pic is fortunately what I see most of the time (although not the ESP lights):

Attachment:
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A bit high, but the inner/outer differential is approximately maintained:

Attachment:
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20180607_165833.jpg [ 219.74 KiB | Viewed 116 times ]


Left outer's off with the fairies:

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20180607_125319.jpg
20180607_125319.jpg [ 185.24 KiB | Viewed 116 times ]


Generally a fairly haphazard system compared with the 2002 9-3 which preceded it. That was ice cold and predictable all its life. The 9000 is a bit binary sometimes when it decides it needs to make a change, but has always been ice cold (5 years in my ownership) and works satisfactorily but not as subtly as the later cars.

In the 9000 if I want to raise the temp from a starting setting of, say 19˚ I make 1˚ changes, giving it a minute to think about it. No change to duct temps, until I select say, 23˚, when all of a sudden I get a blast of hot air, which then slowly cools down. Of course its a decades old design so I guess this was state of the art at the time.


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PostPosted: Thu May 16, 2019 6:51 pm 
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Location: Queenborough, Kent
Car Model: 9k, 9-5 Aero & a Jaaag
Pollen filter replaced, after leaving the engine running for a couple of minutes with both sides on the ACC set to "LO", the bigger pipe in the engine bay (suction?) was getting cold, but the smaller pipe (delivery?) was only vaguely warm. On the 9000 (with a fixed displacement compressor, rather than the variable displacement one in the 9-5) that smaller pipe would be getting hot. So I'm wondering if it is the expansion valve and/or condenser? Of the two, the expansion valve sounds more likely ...

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'98 9000 2.3T CSE, stage 3
'04 9-5 Aero manual, stage 3
'08 Jaguar XFR


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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 7:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:09 pm
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Location: Sandwich
Car Model: 2005 9-5 Aero Wagon
Thanks Dan
Going to plug Tech 2 in and do some checks but will print that off and run through it. On starting yesterday it was cold so obviously producing chilled air but as engine temp rises I presume warm air is muddling things.....

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9000 Aero 1995 in black
1994 GM 900
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PostPosted: Fri May 17, 2019 6:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 10:47 am
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Location: Queenborough, Kent
Car Model: 9k, 9-5 Aero & a Jaaag
Got some cheap digital thermometers (very similar to those shown above by cardboardcutout, it seems) ... drove home and set the ACC to 18 degrees on both sides. Checked the temperature from the driver's side centre and right vents - below 10 degrees from both. Then set it to max cooling ("LO" on both sides and panel vents selected), the vent temperature rose to about 15 degrees ... the only real difference being that the fan is then at max speed. Given that the temperature has dropped makes me think that there's likely to be one of two issues ...

1) the mixer flap isn't working correctly and is unable to reach its' full cold setting
2) the A/C system has a (very) limited cooling capacity and as such isn't able to ramp that up on increased demand, hence the cooling effect at high fan speeds is less.

After watching this video yesterday, I'm leaning more towards the expansion valve. Although I'm currently thinking that some manifold gauges might currently be a worthwhile purchase ... :roll:

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'04 9-5 Aero manual, stage 3
'08 Jaguar XFR


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