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 Post subject: '94 9000 Not Starting...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:35 pm 
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Light Pressure Turbo
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:33 pm
Posts: 514
Location: right here
Car Model: '94 9000 CSE & '02 9-5 SE
Had a week and a half of enjoying my new 9000 CSE until it started to take longer for the engine to fire up, took a few tries to get it started. This eventually got worse until now it simply won't fire at all... the engine just cranks but no start.

I've put a new battery on it, tried 3 different DIC units, fitted a new crank sensor & made sure the fuel pump is working correctly... no change. I've pulled fuses, checked relays, basically done everything I can think of to no avail.

The vehicle does have a Cobra alarm system fitted and I'm left wondering if the immobiliser is causing the issue. I only bought the thing 6 weeks ago or so and only managed 300 miles before it became undriveable... pretty fed up of it now.

Any suggestions anyone?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:38 pm 
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Talking Turkey
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Location: not in a SAAB.
Car Model: One of the first RHD 9-5s
The immobiliser would be a good place to start. Somewhere in the knowledge base there is a really long thread my mr.tony-1000 on the 9000 non start diagnosis. Follow that as it is about the most comprehensive list ive seen.

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:43 pm 
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Light Pressure Turbo
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Car Model: '94 9000 CSE & '02 9-5 SE
Quote:
The immobiliser would be a good place to start. Somewhere in the knowledge base there is a really long thread my mr.tony-1000 on the 9000 non start diagnosis. Follow that as it is about the most comprehensive list ive seen.


Thanks, I'll take a look.

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Had; '80 900GLE~'84 99GL~'85 900t16~'86 9000t16(x2)~'96 9000CSE
Have; '94 9000CSE~'02 9-5 SE


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:22 pm 
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Location: The far East
Car Model: Back in a 9000 #4!
Ignition switch?

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2015 7:17 pm
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Location: Peterborough
Car Model: Saab 9000s
Do you get the normal 'buzzing' noise for a few secs from the fuel pump when you turn the ignition on (after it has been stood a while - otherwise there is enough pressure in the system and it doesn't run). If not, it could be a duff fuel pump.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:27 pm 
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Car Model: Saab 9000 aero w/jules-tune
brooklands wrote:
Ignition switch?


I would also be looking here, have you had any other random occurances over the last few days? Lights not going on ect.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:46 am 
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Light Pressure Turbo
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Car Model: '94 9000 CSE & '02 9-5 SE
To answer the suggestions so far... as stated, the fuel pump is functioning, & as someone pointed out, when the ignition switch fails you get any number of odd indicators that something's amiss (I've replaced two on previous 9000's) so I'm fairly sure it isn't that.

The immobiliser is a likely candidate given that everything else has been either ruled out or replaced but it seems odd that it would be intermittent & then gradually get worse... I'm inclined to think, possibly mistakenly, that gradual component failure in that kind of circuit is unlikely. I'd happily stand corrected though.

Annoying thing is that my nearest trusted specialist is an hours drive away. That's £140 in flatbed time.

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Had; '80 900GLE~'84 99GL~'85 900t16~'86 9000t16(x2)~'96 9000CSE
Have; '94 9000CSE~'02 9-5 SE


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:52 am 
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santeras wrote:
I'm inclined to think, possibly mistakenly, that gradual component failure in that kind of circuit is unlikely

They usually use relays to interrupt the protected circuits, though, and the contacts on those can fail gradually.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:58 am 
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Shotgun
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Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:51 pm
Posts: 12312
Location: 'Ull
Car Model: 95 Aero Auto Est Stg 1 Noobed
I had a Cobra(?) immobiliser on one of my old 9000's (with a little dongle thing I had to touch on the dash mounted pad to disable). When it failed (it was taking many attempts to get it to register), I removed it. It took several hours of wire tracing behind the dash, but once you trace from the receiver, it's fairly self explanatory.

I ran the car for years after without fault following removal.

Unfortunately I can't help any further than this, as it was probably 10 years or more since I had to do this?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:37 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2014 10:24 am
Posts: 1150
Car Model: 900 96 drop top
brooklands wrote:
Ignition switch?


If it is the ignition switch a common way of spotting this on the GM 900 is when the ignition is on the fuel and temp gauge does not go up


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:53 am 
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Talking Turkey
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Location: not in a SAAB.
Car Model: One of the first RHD 9-5s
Shalien wrote:
I had a Cobra(?) immobiliser on one of my old 9000's (with a little dongle thing I had to touch on the dash mounted pad to disable). When it failed (it was taking many attempts to get it to register), I removed it. It took several hours of wire tracing behind the dash, but once you trace from the receiver, it's fairly self explanatory.

I ran the car for years after without fault following removal.

Unfortunately I can't help any further than this, as it was probably 10 years or more since I had to do this?


I done a similar job for LoganSaab many years ago as part of the reshell we done for him after his incident on a trackday.

BillJ wrote:
santeras wrote:
I'm inclined to think, possibly mistakenly, that gradual component failure in that kind of circuit is unlikely

They usually use relays to interrupt the protected circuits, though, and the contacts on those can fail gradually.


I was going to say exactly the same thing. Would guess the alarm is probably 20+ years old now so a failed relay or control electronics would be a good place to start looking.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:02 pm
Posts: 1748
Location: Aberdeen
Car Model: Saab 9000 aero w/jules-tune
Could send the ecu to jules to have vss removed then you will know if its immobiliser or not


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:06 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 02, 2008 6:09 pm
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Location: Sandwich
Car Model: 2005 9-5 Aero Wagon
If a '94 car will be pre VSS I believe like my '95 Aero. When I had problems with immobiliser a few years back it wouldn't even crank. Bit of a faff but gradual elimination resolved it. Whilst you say fuel is fine I might still be tempted to break the connection at the front just to check fuel is getting through. Do you know if the filter has been changed in its life?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:53 pm 
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Light Pressure Turbo
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:33 pm
Posts: 514
Location: right here
Car Model: '94 9000 CSE & '02 9-5 SE
Quote:
Whilst you say fuel is fine I might still be tempted to break the connection at the front just to check fuel is getting through. Do you know if the filter has been changed in its life?


At the risk of sounding sarcastic, when I said the fuel pump is working properly, it meant that I've clearly checked the fuel is actually getting through to the rail.

The Cobra thing didn't come with a dongle or card, and I've no idea where the control unit of for it is... there's no pad on the dash anywhere either.
The point about it having relays that may fail is good to know, I am however reluctant to remove the system both for security reasons & simply because I'm very much done with having to take vehicles apart by this point. I paid a not inconsiderable sum of money for what is one of the cleanest & low mileage 9000's out there for this very reason. I'm not so naive as to expect it to never go wrong, but it is incredibly frustrating to think that my old one with all its myriad faults would actually work, but one that's almost new by comparison is sitting immobile on my driveway.

Rant over... but thanks for the suggestions so far everyone.

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Had; '80 900GLE~'84 99GL~'85 900t16~'86 9000t16(x2)~'96 9000CSE
Have; '94 9000CSE~'02 9-5 SE


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:49 pm 
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Location: not in a SAAB.
Car Model: One of the first RHD 9-5s
If it helps then the immobiliser will almost certainly be buried behind the glovebox as thats where the main wiring loom passes through. If you can find it they are pretty easy to remove. Bear in mind thieves can now be inside a brand new car and driving it with all the advances in security and a simple relay controlled immobiliser will be no challenge to them at all. Not that they are going to be interested in an old car when new ones are no more difficult to steal.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:17 am 
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Location: Royal Tunbridge Wells
Car Model: '03 9-5 2.3 Vector Auto Estate
My '94 9k had a Cobra system. It never worked, I did not have a remote for it, only a key which operated a key switch on a black box with lots of wires on the LH inner wing in front of the battery. I assumed this was the control box, but maybe not, but never bothered aa it did not work and made no difference what I did with the key.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:18 pm 
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Light Pressure Turbo
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:33 pm
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Location: right here
Car Model: '94 9000 CSE & '02 9-5 SE
Quote:
...only a key which operated a key switch on a black box with lots of wires on the LH inner wing in front of the battery.


Yes, that's the control module... which isn't there on mine. All I can see is the alarm horn & next to that under a steel bracket is a 2in round white unit with 2 heavy gauge green/yellow wires coming from it into the loom. I unplugged those wires & jumpered them thinking it might be some kind of immobiliser relay, to no avail.

Quote:
If it helps then the immobiliser will almost certainly be buried behind the glovebox as thats where the main wiring loom passes through. If you can find it they are pretty easy to remove.


I figured it was probably back there but I'm reluctant to start removing what might be a perfectly good Thatchams rated alarm system only to find out it hasn't made any difference. Not to mention the horror of trying to decipher & deal with the cars wiring loom... I try and avoid messing with things I have almost no clue about. There's a fair chance I could just compound my problems.

It's looking as if I'm going to have to shell out the £140 to get it back to the garage (an hours drive away) & have them find out what on earth's going on. I'd happily just sell the damn thing and keep my 9-5 instead by this point.

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Had; '80 900GLE~'84 99GL~'85 900t16~'86 9000t16(x2)~'96 9000CSE
Have; '94 9000CSE~'02 9-5 SE


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:37 pm 
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I'd be tempted by a mobile auto electrian in your position, in the absence of Autoaid breakdown recovery.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:33 pm
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Car Model: '94 9000 CSE & '02 9-5 SE
Quote:
I'd be tempted by a mobile auto electrian in your position, in the absence of Autoaid breakdown recovery.


Yes, that's something I'd considered, but having looked into ones in my area I couldn't find any that came with enough positive feedback/recommendations to make me confident enough to let them near my vehicle. That's not to say there aren't any good ones, but if there's an element of doubt then I'd rather find another option.

The car is heading back to the garage in a couple of weeks where they can at least plug it into TechII and see if that sheds any light on it. If necessary they can remove the alarm system & at least I'll know it's been done properly.

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Had; '80 900GLE~'84 99GL~'85 900t16~'86 9000t16(x2)~'96 9000CSE
Have; '94 9000CSE~'02 9-5 SE


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