UKSaabs

I was talking to Birdie last night about what the works did on the 99T. All the photos I have show a fabricated air box which must have the water to air cooler in it. A pipe runs through the baulkhead I presume to the cars heater, which I think must be on its own pumped circuit (ie not to the engine block). The cooler must be a rad and the charge comes in on the left.
Then there is the 928 injector metering unit on the left which must be engine driven and feeds a set of main injectors just before the throttle bodys, which are right next to the head. There must be another set of injectors on the right of the airbox just infront of each runner. Since the 928 was a v8, two cylinder will fire at once and Saab seems to have used this to fire a set of smaller injectors up stream. Does anyone have a set of photos of the other side of the airbox?
I take it the throttle bodies were bespoke?

Any good photo's will be much apprieciated, otherwise Birdies going to take his spanner set with him when he visits the museum!

Correction - two cylinder will be close to firing at the same time.

OK my theory is that the intake air box is a water tank and in it it will have something similar to a air to air intercooler working from top to bottom (inlet top). This I recon will be in a water tank (the box) which is pumped to the heater and Birdie recons a small rad at the front. Birdie recons they could not get an air to air cooler in a place that fed enough cold air to it, so they used an air to water cooler, which could be placed further back in the engine bay.
Going on my further comment about the second injectors, I dont think you could have them in a turbo airbox, so maybe they are at 45 deg, but under the runners off the airbox.
Why all this? I hope to build a 99T rally car for the Classic class (like Malc) and I want it full house to grp 2 homologation. I have cofirmed that we can use a 2wd turbo in classic rallying, so Porsche 911 Turbos are in too, but at the moment the British Historic Championship does not count them for points. That might change as the regs are up for review. Their main issue seem to be mapping, but since nearly all these cars had basic electro-mechanical systems I dont see this as a problem.

RICH,SEND US YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS,AND I WILL FORWARD ON ALL THE PICTURES I TOOK OF THE ENGINE BAY IN SWEDEN

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I found an early (I think) picture of the engine bay and this one used the std weber 45 manifold and thin throttle bodies, but with a larger plenum and larger dia runners. The waste gate looks different in every photo I have. This set up appears to have no intercooler at all.

I have looked at the 79 homologation papers and after talking to Sonett think the fronts are 4 pot MK2 grp4 Escort Monte items and the rear piston size is the same as the MK 2 grp 4 rear brakes that have a combined handbrake. I think these will be bigger than the 914/4 items that were used on the EMS.

Next thing is how was the dry sump pump driven and did saab ever fit an air/air intercooler (any photo's)?

Dave thought the 8 metering ports might of linked together and fed 4 injectors?

A/PCP2271-182S4QR S4QR RH CLOSED BACK 4 PISTON ALLOY CALIPER
A/PCP2271-183S4QR S4QR LH CLOSED BACK 4 PISTON ALLOY CALIPER
A/PCP4448-160G4 BRAKE DISC G4
A/PCP4448-161G4 BRAKE DISC G4

You will need to make bells/hubs and alter the mounting holes.

Think I memntioned this in one of the other "works 99T threads" but the SAAB works team chap I spoke to a year or so ago, mentioned the cars had a charge cooler system for cooling the intake and the head/engine cooling was re routed to the cars internal heater.
He said they could test over in Sweden in mid winter driving around in T-shirts and shorts when inside the cars

He confirmed the twin set of injectors and the Porsche metering head, custom intakes etc and how they strengthed the gearbox. They were also running KKK turbos.

Thats what I have in an article, the problem is nobody seems to have a photo of the second set of injectors and the one in the museum only has 4 fitted.

If you contact Peter Backstrom at the museum I am sure he can find out some more info for you. He has access to the archives and is very familiar with the competition department's history.

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89 C900 2dr T16S track hack: For sale
9-3 2.8T
9-5 Aero 600Nm
96V4

I'm fitting mappable water injection which I hope will keep the intake temperatures down without the need for intercoolers et al

I have been told (correct me if I am wrong) that the brake setup must be as fitted to production cars to qualify for HRC regs. I know that
the crossover year (1985 - 1986) on the 900's hand a front hand brake with vented disks and these were fitted to the works 99 rally cars.
To keep the front handbrake I have fitted a second hydraulic for the rears!
Plus they had power steering, mine happens to be electric rather than hydraulic but this is acceptable by the rules.......... I hope
malc

Nope, it can run from grp 1-4 in British and FIA rules, so you can use the grp 4 brakes which I believe you will need to stop the thing. The difference is that you can not run a 4wd turbo in a historic rally in the uk and I think the turbo has to be the type fitted by the manufacturer (no mention to hybrid types with different internals). As far as I know you can not use anything mappable as the car uses and used simple electro mechanical control. It has to be as used by the works team or offered by the manufacturer with the car. Basically it has to be to Homologation pre 82 and FIA/CIS Apendix J which cover the engine mod in grp 4 as this was free-ish and therefore is not covered by the homolgation papers (you wont get any engine induction mods in the GRP 4 papers). The car at the moment will not count for points on a BHRC round, but can run unregistered or in any historic stage rally. The engine will also have to be a B type 8 valve not a 900 H or 16v. You will probably get away with the steering over here, but I doubt it on a FIA event.
I am trying to get it accepted by the BHRC guys to count for points and I will be seeing Simon Marks and Paul Loveridge no-doubt this weekend to see what they think.

If you can prove it was used on the works cars then it will be accepted, the pic of the brake set up i posted can be used.
Not too sure if your electric PS will be allowed, works cars had standard LHD 99 PS which is mechanical, yours will be electric AND adjustable.
Mappable water injection will not be allowed.

I am fitting a rhd 900 quick rack with power steering and altering the bulkhead, which I am pretty sure will be ok with the rule makers.

I need to clear up what we can run Turbo wise, bog std or std housing and different internals.

You would have to run the correct grp4 brakes, which are very expensive. I dont think they will allow a cheaper set up off a std production car. Its the same for Escorts, it would be cheaper to fit production parts off other cars that do the same job as the correct grp 4 items, but I think they have to run the pukka parts. That's why a classic Mk2 costs a fortune to build or buy.

Then I mean production brakes I mean something like a set of 4 pots of a road car, the std items are homologated into grp 1.

Gawd what a minefield! Luckily the guys in the Scottish Rally Championship have said I can run it in the Historic class as long as it's basically as built with modern safety stuff and updates "in the spirit" of the car. For example as the works cars had power steering I can too even if it's a different type, can't get original bits etc. The other thing for me is I don't have a fortune to spend on it.
I just want to have some fun really and if I have to go in a modern class so be it. Just nice to have something different out on the stages, Ken Wood, who is well known in Scotland, has done the same thing with a Dolomite Sprint... He has managed to get a MG Rover 75 V6 under the bonnet, he has a lot of fun and spectators love it. He has had it on it's roof once already!

Good luck getting yours sorted Malc

Basically you can run within the modern rules with any mods/different engine etc, but you could be thrown out of the historics in the uk. The Scots breaks the rules mainly in road rallys and the MSA are well aware. My theory is spend the cash on the car and make it legal for uk and Europe because the thing will be worth double the price when its finished.
Just out interest running cost will be high, mine does 3mpg on the stage according to Dave and the escort boys on this weekends rally went through 8 sets of rear tyres and two fronts, some had to retire because they could not carry enough tyres over the 45 mile event. You can expect that type of tyre wear on the front of the Turbo. So two new tyres at service on dry abbrasive events and another 2 in the boot to change between stages on each loop (at least you can swap the rears on to the front). I will also need a 12 gallon fuel tank!

Does anyone know were the grp 4/2 homologation on the engine can be found? Was it even homologated? The later FIA papers do not cover it, so do the early ones cover it?
I was Talking to Paul Loveridge and he said the Escort papers cover all the main engine mod's, Julian Birch (Talbot) said he had the same trouble with the Talbot, but then he found the stuff in an earlier edition.
If I carnt find them he is willing to look at the photo's/event the car ran in, but it should be to the papers.

I carnt see that Saab ran as a grp 4 only grp 2 and grp A in their final seasons. I think they were probably working towards a grp 4 spec car when the thing was pulled. The papers you need in the uk are ones for grp 1-4, so A does not count. The car is more based on grp 2.

HELLO RICH,

I HAVE A MOUNTAIN OF INFORMATION/PHOTOS ON THE WORKS 99 TURBOS MOSTLY WRITEN AND PHOTOGRAPHED IN 1978/1979/1980,BUT YOU WILL HAVE TO GIVE ME A MONTH OR TWO TO DIG IT ALL OUT.........

ACCORDING TO 'GRAHAM ROBSON' MOTORING JOURNALIST,AND AUTHOR OF 'SAAB TURBO'......THE 3 DOOR CAR WAS APPROVED FOR GROUP 4 IN IN JANUARY 1978,AND WAS FURTHER UPGRADED TO GROUP 1(WHICH REQUIRED 5000 EXAMPLES OF THE BASIC MODEL BUILDING IN A TWELVE MONTH PERIOD) IN OCTOBER OF THAT YEAR.

IN 1979 DURING FEBRUARY THE 2 DOOR CAR WAS HOMOLOGATED FOR GROUP 4(400-OFF PRODUCTION REQUIRED)AND IT WAS UPGRADED TO GROUP 2(1000 MODELS PRODUCED) ONE MONTH AFTER THAT.

THE 900 TURBO WAS ALSO HOMOLOGATED FOR GROUP 2 AS WELL.

IN 1979/1980 ON THE RAC RALLY THE RS ESCORTS,FIAT 131 ABARTH AND TOYOTS CELICAS WERE ALL IN CLASS 8.
TRIUMPH TR7 V8,LANCIA STRATOS, CHEVETTE HS2300 IN CLASS 9,WHILST THE 99 TURBO OF STIG,AND OLA STROMBERG IN CLASS 6.

BY 1980 'TORSTEN AMAN' SAABS COMPETITION 'PR' MAN,WAS CONSISDERING HOMOLOGATING THE NECESSARY LIGHTWEIGHT BODY PARTS TO MAKE THE 2DR 99T 200 LBS LIGHTER STILL....!

DEVELOPMENT WITH KKK TURBOCHARGERS,ALLOWED MORE POWER,BUT THE TURBO ALSO SUFFERED FROM UNRELAIBILITY SO SAAB REVERTED BACK TO GARRETT T3 UNITS......

ALLEGEDLY ON THE RAC RALLIES SAAB RAN 'STIGS' CAR WITH MORE POWER THAN 'OLA STROMBERGS'............BUT IT DIDNT REALLY MATTER AS BOTH CARS BROKE REGULARLY


CONTRARY TO POPULAR BELIEF IT WAS NOT!!!!!!!!!! THE GEARBOX THAT KEPT BREAKING,BUT THE DRIVESHAFTS STRUGGLING TO COPE WITH STEERING/LEFT FOOT BRAKING/TORQUE OUTPUTS.............

I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO BREAK STANDARD 99 GEARBOXES,RACING AND RALLYING FOR 10 YEARS.........



BUT ,THEN SOMEBODY IS BOUND TO TELL ME THAT IF I PUT AN 'EMS' CAM INTO MY 99T I WILL MAKE MORE POWER.......

_________________
NEVER,SUFFER FROM INSANITY...............

ENJOY IT.