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 Post subject: 99 Turbo plugs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:49 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Dorking Surrey
Car Model: 99 turbo
Any tips on what’s the best Spark plugs for 99 Turbo , also in view of what fuel in available nowdays is there a revised setting for engine timing that is worth trying . Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo plugs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:18 pm 
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Light Pressure Turbo

Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:26 pm
Posts: 592
Saab recommended NGK BP6ES or BP7ES which are still available.
The colder 7ES is probably the safer option but can suffer from a bit of misfiring with extended gentle driving.
Some people seem to prefer the precious metal tipped equivalant, BP6EVIX / BP7EVIX ?, but I think this type of plug was developed just to get cars through longer service intervals.
If you can't get the car to run properly on the standard plugs look for a problem elsewhere.

I would use super unleaded and standard timing. The octane of super unleaded is at least as good as the 4 star fuel of the time. You don't want to be using any more than the standard boost setting and make sure the fuel enrichments are working. A seperate issue with unleaded fuel is valve seat recession, I don't think this is likely to be a problem with the limited mileage these cars are likely to be covering and altering ignition timing isn't going to help.


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo plugs
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:44 am 
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Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 11:18 pm
Posts: 4172
Location: REMAINING UNFAITHFUL TO FACTORY STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS SINCE 1988
Car Model: OLD SAABS....NUMEROUS
AS MENTIONED IN THE PREVIOUS TOPIC, REGARDS 'OVERHEATING'. IF YOU ARE NOW SATISFIED THE CAR IS RUNNING COOLER,GET IT TO A 'ROLLING ROAD',TO ESTABLISH THE FUEL ENRICHMENT SYSTEM IS OPERATIONAL.
IT IS NOT EXPENSIVE,USUALLY AROUND £50.

THIS WILL ALSO HIGHLIGHT ANY MISFIRES,FAILURES IN THE HT LEADS ETC,AS THE ENGINE IS PUT UNDER LOAD. FIRST,YOU REALLY SHOULD CHECK THE COMPRESSIONS ON YOUR ENGINE,BOTH HOT AND COLD,TO ESTABLISH THERE ARE NO INITIAL, INTERNAL ISSUES. SHOULD BE AROUND 150-170 PSI.

AS '99 PETE' MENTIONS,EVEN WITH THE RECOMMENDED NGK BP7ES,AFTER AROUND 3000-4000 MILES,AN ANNOYING 'MISFIRE' CAN OCCUR,ON A LIGHT THROTTLE,WITH THE 99 TURBO.A CHANGE OF NEW,SPARK PLUGS (NGK ONLY)WILL USUALLY REMEDY THIS.

ONLY USE 'BOSCH' DISTRIBUTOR CAP,AND ROTOR ARM,THE ORIGINAL 'REV LIMITER' TYPE ROTOR ARM,WAS ALSO FITTED TO VARIOUS VOLKSWAGENS ETC,SO A LITTLE RESEARCH SHOULD FIND YOU ONE.

THE FIRST THING I DID,WAS TO THROW THE ORIGINAL ROTOR ARM IN THE BIN,AND FIT A STANDARD ROTOR ARM, SUPPORTED BY 'OMEX' MOTORSPORT REV. LIMITER,WHICH IS FITTED ON THE DASHBOARD.
https://www.demon-tweeks.com/uk/omex-cl ... er-245991/


THIS CAN BE PROGRAMMED TO GIVE A 'SOFT CUT' IN THE ENGINE REVS,AND AT EXACTLY THE ENGINE REVOLUTIONS,THAT YOU WISH IT TO CUT IN.BEARING IN MIND OF COURSE,THIS WAS FITTED AS A 'SAFETY BACK-UP' ONLY, SHOULD THE CAR GET OVER-REVVED,OR I MISSED A GEAR.
THE TURBO ENGINE,IN THE 'CLARION 99 TURBO' IS MAKING NEAR ON MAXIMUM TORQUE AT JUST OVER 2500 REVS,SO THE NEED TO 'HANG ON',TO THE 'REDLINE' IS RATHER POINTLESS,AS TORQUE,HAS WELL DROPPED OFF IT'S PEAK BY THEN.



THIS 'OMEX REV LIMITER' RATHER EFFECTIVE,AND CAN BE HEARD HERE...AT JUST ON 28 MINUTES IN, AS I CLIPPED THE LARGE KERBS,AT THE TOP OF THE HILL AT 'RETRO RIDES 2014',THE RESULTING SHOCK TO THE NEARSIDE SUSPENSION, KNOCKING OUT OF 2ND GEAR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OQxug0XmyY



IF THE AIR/FUEL RATIO UNDER BOOST CONDITIONS IS NOT AS IT SHOULD BE? YOU ARE HEADING FOR,CRACKED EXHAUST VALVES,OR WORSE STILL A CRACKED CYLINDER HEAD,OR SHATTERED PISTON LANDS.

HERE WAS ONE OF THE FIRST 'ROLLING ROAD' RUNS, FROM WHEN I BUILT THE CLARION 99 TURBO. WE CAN SEE HERE THE AFR, IS BECOMING DANGEROUSLY LEAN DURING MID-RANGE,RUNNING 1 BAR BOOST,WITH INTERCOOLER.

UTILISING THIS DATA,I WEN'T AWAY, AND DEVELOPED A WATER SPRAY FOR THE INTERCOOLER,WHICH IS OPERATED MANUALLY FROM THE COCKPIT .IT IS MOUNTED JUST THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COCKPIT,ON THE BULKHEAD(SO I CAN HEAR IT IS WORKING),NEXT TO THE FUSEBOX,AND OPERATED VIA AN ILLUMINATED SWITCH,ON THE RIGHT OF THE DASHBOARD.
AUDIBLE HERE,AT 2 MINS 20 SECS.
HOWEVER,IT DOES NOT HELP FIX THE NUT BEHIND THE WHEEL.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9G-BIInI0I

NOTHING MORE COMPLICATED THAN AN ADDITIONAL 'VDO' SAAB WASHER PUMP,WHICH SOURCES THE 'INTERCOOLER SPRAY'(WATER)FROM THE ORIGINAL SAAB 99 TURBO WASHER BOTTLE,AND USING MORE RUBBER WASHER TUBING,FITTED WITH SOME 0.6MM 'MIG' COPPER WELDING TIPS(SQUASHED ACCORDINGLY IN THE VICE),IT GIVES ADEQUATE WATER MIST.


Attachments:
NOZZLES CABLE TIED TO TOP OF GRILLE.jpg
NOZZLES CABLE TIED TO TOP OF GRILLE.jpg [ 33.95 KiB | Viewed 470 times ]
ROLLING ROAD DASTEK 30 OCT 2010 ....AIR INLET ENGINE.......AFR.......BOOST PRESSURE.JPG
ROLLING ROAD DASTEK 30 OCT 2010 ....AIR INLET ENGINE.......AFR.......BOOST PRESSURE.JPG [ 61.86 KiB | Viewed 470 times ]
MISFIRING SPARK PLUGS.jpg
MISFIRING SPARK PLUGS.jpg [ 46.19 KiB | Viewed 470 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo plugs
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:14 am 
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Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 11:18 pm
Posts: 4172
Location: REMAINING UNFAITHFUL TO FACTORY STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS SINCE 1988
Car Model: OLD SAABS....NUMEROUS
WITH THE INTERCOOLER SPRAY SORTED,NEXT ISSUE WAS TO REMEDY THE LACK OF ADEQUATE FUELLING MID-RANGE?(PICTURED PREVIOUS POST).

THE COLD START INJECTOR,WAS INCORPORATED INTO A MICRO-SWITCHED 'LOOP', WHERE I ALSO FITTED AN EXTRA THROTTLE 'CAM' PLATE,ONTO THE THROTTLE SPINDLE.
ALTHOUGH THIS IS A RATHER CRUDE WAY,OF ENRICHENING THE MIXTURE,AT A GIVEN POINT? IT ALLOWED THE 'AFR' TO REMAIN,MUCH NEARER THE IDEAL STOICHIOMETRIC POINT(14.7 TO 1),DURING MY OPTIMAL 'REV' RANGE (2500-5000 RPM).

IDEALLY THE FIFTH INJECTOR WOULD BE BETTER POSITIONED,POINTING DIRECTLY AT THE THROTTLE INTAKE,RATHER THAN THE COLD START INJECTORS ORIGINAL POSITION. BUT,THIS IS ALL RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT TO BE UTILISED IN FUTURE ENGINE BUILDS.


HOWEVER, THIS ALLOWED ME TO EFFECTIVELY ENGAGE THE COLD START INJECTOR,ALONG WITH THE 'BOOST' ENRICHMENT SYSTEM, (WHICH WHILST ADEQUATE ON A STANDARD CAR AT 0.7 BAR BOOST)WAS STRUGGLING TO KEEP THE 'AFR SAFE' WITHIN THE REQUIRED RPM,ACCORDING TO THE INITIAL ROLLING ROAD DATA.

TO EITHER SWITCH THIS SYSTEM, ON OR OFF? IT IS OPERATED AGAIN,FROM THE DASHBOARD COMBINED WITH AN 'IDIOT 'LIGHT. THIS LIGHT,ONLY ILLUMINATES WHEN THE THROTTLE CAM IS ENGAGED,SO I KNOW IT IS WORKING.

NAMED 'A.R.S.E'

ACTIVATED REMOTE SWITCH EXTRA-FUELLING.

SEEN WORKING HERE,AT CADWELL PARK,WHILST LEFT FOOT BRAKING,AT FULL BOOST.(CLICK TO ENLARGE)

OF COURSE,WITHOUT ANY OF THE 'ROLLING ROAD' DATA,WE REALLY DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON? WHETHER THE IGNITION SYSTEM IS AT IT'S OPTIMAL OPERATING PARAMETERS?


Attachments:
ROLLING ROAD FIFTH INJECTOR SESSION SEPTEMBER 2011.........STANDARD 99T HEAD...STANDARD 99T CAM.JPG
ROLLING ROAD FIFTH INJECTOR SESSION SEPTEMBER 2011.........STANDARD 99T HEAD...STANDARD 99T CAM.JPG [ 49.09 KiB | Viewed 466 times ]
A    R    S    E.jpg
A R S E.jpg [ 48.42 KiB | Viewed 466 times ]
COPYRIGHT AEROHEAD UKS 1.jpg
COPYRIGHT AEROHEAD UKS 1.jpg [ 213.93 KiB | Viewed 466 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo plugs
PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:29 am 
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Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 11:18 pm
Posts: 4172
Location: REMAINING UNFAITHFUL TO FACTORY STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS SINCE 1988
Car Model: OLD SAABS....NUMEROUS
THE NEXT STEP,WITH THE NEW 2.1 ENGINE BUILD IS TO INCORPORATE A 'LAMBDA' SENSOR FROM A LATER C900,INTO THE TURBO ELBOW,AND AN 'AFR' GAUGE,TO ADD TO THE ALREADY CLUTTERED 'COCKPIT'..... :roll:

AFTER INITIAL TRIAL FITTING?

'NOTE' BOOST GAUGE RE-LOCATED TO THE LEFT,REPLACED BY THE MORE 'ALL' IMPORTANT OIL PRESSURE!
SACRIFICING 'HALF' THE GLOVEBOX,ALLOWS FOR THE 'AUTOLEC' MORE SWITCHES,ELECTRIC FAN ETC,AND EXTERNAL TEMPERATURE,AND THE ALL IMPORTANT FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE.
K-JET ON THE 99 TURBO RUNS AT AROUND 90 PSI DIRECT FROM THE FUEL PUMP,THIS IS A MECHANICAL FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE,WHICH PICKS UP FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FUEL FILTER,WITH BRAIDED FUEL LINE,SO I CAN TELL IN AN INSTANT,IF THERE ARE FUEL PRESSURE ISSUES.

APOLOGIES FOR THE RATHER LONG WINDED REPLY,BUT I HOPE THIS HELP'S WITH THE RUNNING AND ENJOYMENT OF YOUR 99 TURBO?

BIRDIE


Attachments:
ALLOY PANEL.jpg
ALLOY PANEL.jpg [ 59.17 KiB | Viewed 465 times ]
Picture0259_1.jpg
Picture0259_1.jpg [ 72.02 KiB | Viewed 465 times ]
COCKPIT.jpg
COCKPIT.jpg [ 49.96 KiB | Viewed 465 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo plugs
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 9:21 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:49 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Dorking Surrey
Car Model: 99 turbo
Thanks for the info , there is a lot for me to study and digest so will report back in due course .
Would like to get as much checked and sorted myself before it’s put on a rolling road as you recommend. The overheating issues are now resolved but looking at the tailpipe it looks like it’s running rich . Tried weakening the mixture up a Qtr turn but it then runs poorly up to 2000 revs , it hunts and shunts on a constant throttle opening at a constant speed but as revs increase it runs better . So it’s gone back to it’s original setting .
So if it’s running ok up to 2000 revs but runs richer after that is there any adjustment , looks to me that adjusting mixture affects the whole Rev range .

Thanks Roy


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo plugs
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:28 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:51 pm
Posts: 2684
Location: Cheshire
Car Model: Saab 900 and 99
99 Pete wrote:
I would use super unleaded and standard timing. The octane of super unleaded is at least as good as the 4 star fuel of the time. You don't want to be using any more than the standard boost setting and make sure the fuel enrichments are working. A seperate issue with unleaded fuel is valve seat recession, I don't think this is likely to be a problem with the limited mileage these cars are likely to be covering and altering ignition timing isn't going to help.


The valve seats in the B and H cylinder heads are more than up to the job with unleaded fuel, I only use super unleaded in my highly tuned 99, just because it was mapped with it for the higher octane. My daily, 900i, gets regular unleaded and has done for the last 10 plus years I have owned it, not long got back from 750 mile trip to Ireland with 4 adults and all their stuff, mostly 70-80 mph, not a hint of pinking or anything else.

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99 '83 Turbo Killer
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Lancer EVO 6.5 TME '00 in red
Lancer EVO 6.5 TME '00 in black


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo plugs
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:06 pm 
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Light Pressure Turbo

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:52 am
Posts: 382
Location: Cleveland North East
Car Model: 99T
Just back to the OP question................... and adding its running rich [ at exhaust]

what do your current spark plugs look like ?


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo plugs
PostPosted: Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 11:18 pm
Posts: 4172
Location: REMAINING UNFAITHFUL TO FACTORY STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS SINCE 1988
Car Model: OLD SAABS....NUMEROUS
THE SPARK PLUGS SHOULD BE THE SAME COLOUR,AS IN THE PHOTO I POSTED,(LIGHT TAN)AFTER A GOOD AMOUNT OF HARD DRIVING,OR LONG MOTORWAY DRIVE.THE INTERIOR OF THE EXHAUST TAILPIPE,SHOULD ALSO BE THIS COLOUR.

NO AMOUNT OF LOCAL RUNNING,IS ANY GUIDE,AS THE ENGINE IS NOT UNDER LOAD.SO THE SPARK PLUGS WILL REMAIN 'SOOTED'.

THE 'WARM UP REGULATOR' IS RATHER ESSENTIAL,IN THE LEANING OFF OF THE MIXTURE AS THE ENGINE REACHES NORMAL OPERATING TEMPERATURE.YOU WOULD NEED ACCESS TO SPECIALIST FUEL PRESSURE EQUIPMENT, TO MEASURE THAT THE PRESSURES ARE WITHIN THE ACCEPTABLE VALUES,WHILST THE ENGINE WARMS.

THE 'WUR' IS OFTEN OVERLOOKED AS THE ROOT CAUSE, OF MOST RUNNING ISSUES WITH K-JETRONIC. IT IS POSSIBLE TO HAVE IT RE-CONDITIONED BY SPECIALIST COMPANIES,HOWEVER I CANNOT VOUCH FOR THE QUALITY OF THESE REFURBISHMENTS.

MARTIN AT JAMSAAB,MAY WELL BE ABLE TO HELP YOU, WITH THIS?

BIRDIE

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