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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 10:17 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2005 6:51 pm
Posts: 2689
Location: Cheshire
Car Model: Saab 900 and 99
robschoice wrote:
it redlines at just over 8k rpm........ Thats gotta sound sweet

I have Audi coupe Quattro 5 zlinder 20 v that revs to 7k and that sounds unbelievable. so turbo turbo at 8k :D


It's not a turbo :D .

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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:34 am 
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Light Pressure Turbo

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:52 am
Posts: 387
Location: Cleveland North East
Car Model: 99T
It's not a turbo :D


Apologies.................. of course its Turbo killer

but still must sound sweet at 8K Id say

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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:49 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:49 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Dorking Surrey
Car Model: 99 turbo
So changed the stat and temp sender and it’s still too hot for my liking . As previously stated the waterless coolant is more viscous than water could this slow the flow round the system , might think about going back to water antifreeze mix .
THOUGHTS ? I think there is a difference between a N/A 99 and a 99T radiator , could the wrong rad be the issue ?
Anybody know the row count for these radiators. Think if I am going to drain the waterless coolant I might get the rad checked out that’s assuming it is the correct rad fitted .


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:07 pm 
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Full Pressure Turbo

Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:26 pm
Posts: 604
I doubt the waterless coolant is your problem but worth changing it to rule it out.
Turbo radiators are different from N/A cars and had more tubes, don't know off hand how many tubes but think the turbo rads had tubes pitched approx 10mm apart and non turbo approx 12/13mm. If your running hot problems are when cruising at moderate speeds I doubt that having a non turbo rad would make much difference. However if the rad is not effecient regardless of which type it is then this will be a problem.
Did you try removing the spotlights?
I know you changed the temp gauge sender but the gauge itself may not be accurate, try attaching some temperature sensitive stick on labels at various places on the cooling system.
With the car stationary and engine idling for an extended period of time does the cooling fan cut in and out and maintain a steady temperature without any loss of coolant?


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 5:17 am 
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UKSaabs Trader
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Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:51 pm
Posts: 930
Location: Unit 1 Technine, Guard Avenue, Houndstone Business Park, Yeovil, Somerset, BA22 8YE
Car Model: Audi, VW & Saabs!!!
The difference in radiators is probably not your issue. I run an NA radiator core in my 90 T16 and don’t have this issue. The earlier point about checking mixture etc is a good one. Incorrect fuelling can cause these issues so a full check of CO, control and line pressures is a start. Check your injector spray pattern too.

Our 99T runs at about 1/2 way but once it’s sat in traffic it’s heading to 2/3 - 3/4 with the fan running hard.

Is your 99T rob grays old one?

Tommy

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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:13 am 
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Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 11:18 pm
Posts: 4189
Location: REMAINING UNFAITHFUL TO FACTORY STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS SINCE 1988
Car Model: OLD SAABS....NUMEROUS
OK,I HAVE KEPT QUIET SO FAR....

1. HAVE THE ENGINE TIMING CHECKED,AND ALSO THE 'MIXTURE' AS ALREADY SUGGESTED. IT IS RATHER ESSENTIAL TO HAVE THE TIMING CORRECTLY SET,WITH STROBOSCOPIC EQUIPMENT WHICH SHOULD BE 23 DEGREES BTDC AT 2000RPM(VAC DISCONNECTED AND PLUGGED).WE CAN RETARD MAYBE 2 DEGREES,TO ALLOW FOR THE RUNNING OF LOWER OCTANE FUELS THESE DAYS.
TOO MUCH RETARDATION ON THE IGNITION TIMING CAN CREATE EXCESSIVE HEAT BUILD UP IN ENGINE/EXHAUST MANIFOLD.
CARRY OUT A 'COMPRESSION' CHECK BOTH 'HOT' AND 'COLD' TO ESTABLISH,THERE ARE NO ISSUES EITHER WITH THE CYLINDER HEAD(CRACKED) OR A FAILING HEAD GASKET.
TAKE THE CAR FOR A GOOD RUN(ON BOOST),THEN REMOVE SPARK PLUGS AND CHECK THEY ALL EXHIBIT A 'LIGHT TAN/BROWN' COLOUR ON THE TIPS.(PICTURE BELOW) THE EXHAUST TAILPIPE SHOULD ALSO BE THE SAME.
CHECK THE SPARK PLUGS FITTED ARE THE CORRECT TYPE. I RUN NGK BP7ES,OR IN COMPETITION I GO FOR THE SIERRA COSWORTH SPEC,A GRADE COOLER.
EACH CYLINDER SHOULD BE SHOWING 140-160 PSI COMPRESSION.
DOES YOUR CAR RUN 'WATER INJECTION?' OR HAVE UPRATED BOOST ? DOES THE ENGINE 'USE' COOLANT? OR DO THE COOLANT HOSES 'SWELL' AT ALL?

2. PRIMARILY,CHANGE THE RADIATOR,FOR A NEW RE-CORED UNIT(YOU CAN EVEN TAKE THE ADVICE OF RELOCATING THE NEARSIDE TAKE OFF PIPE,TO THE BOTTOM OF THE RADIATOR,JUST LIKE ON '99 EMS' TURBO KILLER).
AN ORIGINAL 'TURBO' RADIATOR SHOULD HAVE 32 ROWS OF COOLANT TUBES,TOP TO BOTTOM(FROM AGEING MEMORY).

3. IF THIS DOES NOT 'IMPROVE' THE ENGINE TEMPERATURE SITUATION? THEN REMOVE THE WATER PUMP ALLOY COVER,AND CHECK THE UNDERSIDE OF THE ALLOY CASTING IS NOT BADLY PITTED/CORRODED,AS THIS WILL CAUSE 'CAVITATION' ISSUES,AND POOR CIRCULATION OF ENGINE COOLANT.
ALSO CHECK THE CONDITION OF THE WATER PUMP IMPELLER,FOR CORROSION AND CONDITION.IS THERE A CONSTANT 'DRIBBLE' FROM UNDER THE WATER PUMP,DOWN THE ENGINE BLOCK?

4. DO NOT! BE TEMPTED TO REMOVE THE THERMOSTAT ALTOGETHER,TO TRY AND 'IMPROVE' THINGS,IT WON'T!
DID YOU TRY THE NEW THERMOSTAT,IN A PAN OF BOILING WATER TO ESTABLISH IT 'WORKS'?
JUST BECAUSE A 'NEW' PART HAS BEEN FITTED,DOES NOT MEAN IT 'WORKS' AS IT SHOULD.

5. ALL STANDARD 99 TURBO'S I HAVE EXPERIENCED RUN FROM THE MIDDLE TO TWO-THIRDS UP THE TEMPERATURE GAUGE,ON 'TICKOVER' ONCE WARMED UP,WITH THE FAN CUTTING IN,REGULARLY. THIS CAN INCREASE TO 3/4 UP THE GAUGE, IN MOTORWAY HOLD UPS,TRAFFIC JAMS ETC....
THIS CAN BE ASSISTED(ALTHOUGH RATHER UNPLEASANT FOR THE CARS OCCUPANTS) BY TURNING THE HEATER CONTROLS ON TO 'HOT',WITH THE FULL CABIN BLOWER FANS ON,AND THE ENGINE TEMPERATURE SHOULD DROP SOMEWHAT. IF NOT,THEN THE HEATER VALVE,OR HEATER MATRIX COULD BE SEIZED/BLOCKED.

6. ONCE ALL THIS HAS BEEN DONE,TAKE THE CAR FOR A 'ROLLING ROAD' SET-UP,TO CHECK THE BOOST ENRICHMENT SYSTEM IS WORKING.


Attachments:
Picture0472.jpg
Picture0472.jpg [ 28.63 KiB | Viewed 1069 times ]
OIL COOLER,INTERCOOLER AND RADIATOR.jpg
OIL COOLER,INTERCOOLER AND RADIATOR.jpg [ 54.22 KiB | Viewed 1069 times ]
NEW WATER PUMP COVER FROM MY TRIP TO SWEDEN.....NOTE THE PITTING AND CORROSION ON THE OLD COVER.JPG
NEW WATER PUMP COVER FROM MY TRIP TO SWEDEN.....NOTE THE PITTING AND CORROSION ON THE OLD COVER.JPG [ 44.57 KiB | Viewed 1069 times ]

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NEVER,SUFFER FROM INSANITY...............

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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:29 pm 
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Barrelling Along
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Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:13 pm
Posts: 20371
Location: Maidstone
Car Model: 9-5 Aero
Yet more excellent stuff from BIRDIE.

As an asides, had you thought about (even as a temporary measure) fitting a graduated temperature gauge? Just to see what the actual running temperatures are.

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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:51 pm 
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Light Pressure Turbo

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 10:52 am
Posts: 387
Location: Cleveland North East
Car Model: 99T
Just a quick idea specialy wi all this hot weather

drain everything from the water sytem and flush flush flush as much as yu can

then definatly no trace of the viscous stuff you are concerned about hopefully

Fill with clean water, then monitor. perhas try a IR heat detector. I have balck and Decker doofer. absolute brilliant. then you have some referance of calibratation ?


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 1:39 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:49 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Dorking Surrey
Car Model: 99 turbo
Thanks all for the useful tips .

Yes Tommy it is Rob Greys old car .

BIRDIEMANGO , you say that the rad should have from memory 32 Rows , 99EMS posted his photo on this thread and I count 30 rows so you both in the same ball park figure, just went out and counted mine and it’s 22 rows so hopefully this is the problem . As I said before it just runs hot and too small a rad cannot dissipate the heat fast enough. So rad out in the morning and off to have a uprated core fitted . Fingers crossed that’s the problem . Don’t think I will bother with the waterless coolant on refitting , just a 50/50 water bluecol mix .

For now I am going to leave the spotlights in position as a lot of people run them or even intercooler in front of rad without probs , maybe take them of in the future if reqd .

In response to your questions BIRDIEMANGO .
Water injection fitted , aftermarket but not sure if it’s working properly or even at all .
Don’t think the boost is uprated , but even running slowly and off boost it’s still hot .
Doesn’t use any coolant , hoses are not swelling up when hot .
No water pump dribble or funny noises , are new water pump covers available new as per you picture ?
Double checked the new stat against the old stat and it opens earlier than the one I took out but couldn’t see what rating the old one was , new one is 82dg.

If I do the lower hose radiator mod like the photo that 99EMS posted what bottom hose should I use as a starting point , any part number available?

Thanks Roy


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 5:38 am 
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UKS Addict
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Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 11:18 pm
Posts: 4189
Location: REMAINING UNFAITHFUL TO FACTORY STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS SINCE 1988
Car Model: OLD SAABS....NUMEROUS
MORNING ROYMCK,
THIS IS LIKELY THE HOSE THAT YOU WILL REQUIRE,AND 'CUT' TO FIT, ASSUMING THAT A WATER COOLED TURBO HAS 'NOT' BE FITTED AS AFTERMARKET?
IT IS NOT JUST A 'FIT AND FORGET' ITEM,YOU WILL HAVE TO DO SOME CAREFUL MEASURING,BEFORE CUTTING!
https://www.partsforsaabs.com/product_i ... ts_id=1800

THE OTHER LISTING ON PFS,IS FOR THE HOSE THAT HAS A 'TAKE-OFF' PIPE THAT RUNS UNDER THE GEARBOX (SOME LATER 8V C900&C90016V),TOWARDS THE TURBO,FOR 'WATER COOLED TURBO' ONLY.

WATER PUMP ALLOY COVERS ARE NO LONGER AVAILABLE,ALTHOUGH 'MARTIN' AT JAMSAAB MAY HAVE ONE OR TWO LEFT?

1ST PICTURE SHOWS MY OWN ENGINE BAY(CLICK TO ENLARGE) WITH STANDARD 99 TURBO RADIATOR FITTED.
3RD PICTURE SHOWS 'ENLARGEMENT' OF FRONT LOWER RADIATOR VENT'S ON MY CAR,TO MAXIMISE POSSIBLE AIRFLOW,WITH THE ADDITION OF INTERCOOLER/RELOCATION OF OIL COOLER.
NOTE ALSO,BONNET VENTS TO EXIT HOT AIR FROM THE ENGINE BAY.

SO AS NOT TO BE 'REPETITIVE' :oops: ,HERE IS A LINK TO 'TEMPERATURE' ISSUES OF PUSHING THE 99 TURBO TO IT'S LIMIT'S OF COOLING CAPACITY WITH UPRATED BOOST,IN MOTORSPORT. IN 'NORMAL' RUNNING,THE ENGINE SITS AROUND TWO THIRDS THE WAY UP THE TEMPERATURE GAUGE.


http://www.uksaabs.co.uk/UKS/viewtopic. ... &start=160


2ND PHOTO SHOWS THE 'WORKS' 99 TURBO WITH A C900 RADIATOR FITTED,TO HELP ALLEVIATE COOLING ISSUES,THE METALWORK OF THE CAR,HAS TO BE 'HACKED' ABOUT TO MAKE THIS FIT!! BUT,YOU CAN SEE THE ADDITIONAL AIR BLEED PIPE FITTED,RUNNING UP THE LEFTHAND INNER WING.

BIRDIE


Attachments:
CLARION ENGINE BAY.jpg
CLARION ENGINE BAY.jpg [ 262.83 KiB | Viewed 978 times ]
1979 WORKS ENGINE BAY 1.jpg
1979 WORKS ENGINE BAY 1.jpg [ 81.6 KiB | Viewed 978 times ]
Picture0355.jpg
Picture0355.jpg [ 31.21 KiB | Viewed 978 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:43 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:49 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Dorking Surrey
Car Model: 99 turbo
Attachment:
511E60E0-8D49-4CE8-91A8-FAD217ACEAB8.jpeg
511E60E0-8D49-4CE8-91A8-FAD217ACEAB8.jpeg [ 190.16 KiB | Viewed 960 times ]
Well the rads out and at the specialist for a rebuild and upgrade , modern cores look so much more efficient than the one that has been removed from the car . Not the easiest radiator to remove when 2 out of the 3 mounting bolts are seized into their captive nuts and then proceed to spin round. Got it out in the end though . Noticed it has 2 aftermarket electric fans fitted instead of one so was this a previous mod to assist in trying to keep temp under control .
Probably won’t know for another month if new rad is going to cure problem as away for a week next week then into hosp for a minor op so no car work until I recover from that .
Fingers crossed it will though.

Roy


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:40 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:49 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Dorking Surrey
Car Model: 99 turbo
Attachment:
A213A494-8FBD-4357-9CBB-EF6B31A9A448.jpeg
A213A494-8FBD-4357-9CBB-EF6B31A9A448.jpeg [ 193.39 KiB | Viewed 897 times ]
Attachment:
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B297FF4E-F356-47CE-A67F-2DE39C6D4587.jpeg [ 190.16 KiB | Viewed 897 times ]
New Vs Old rad . Hope this cures the problem?


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 4:45 pm 
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Full Pressure Turbo
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Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:10 am
Posts: 727
Location: Longton
Looks great, fingers crossed for a good result :)

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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 11:32 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:49 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Dorking Surrey
Car Model: 99 turbo
Attachment:
1AA42859-EA46-4DEC-AAB8-00F6B967757A.jpeg
1AA42859-EA46-4DEC-AAB8-00F6B967757A.jpeg [ 129.06 KiB | Viewed 655 times ]
Well feeling a bit better so thought I would make a start on putting the car back together . It never came with the proper electric fan but with 2 fans that were too large and overhung the end tanks so bought a couple of 9 inch fans from eBay . Made up some mounting brackets and all mounted up nice and neat . Now needs to be fitted to the car so TBC...


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 7:59 pm 
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Full Pressure Turbo

Joined: Fri Jun 16, 2006 9:26 pm
Posts: 604
Nice job on mounting them to the rad, good to see you didn't use those nasty plastic ties that poke trough the rad core.

Do you know the CFM rating of the fans?


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:50 am 
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Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:49 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Dorking Surrey
Car Model: 99 turbo
CFM varies on who you buy from but they seem to quote 600 to 1000 CFM per fan , just have to see if they cope but can’t see why not .


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 12:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 13, 2016 2:49 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Dorking Surrey
Car Model: 99 turbo
Well today was the day for the road test , took it out and gave it a good thrashing and success as it never went over medium heat and when I stopped the fans run on for about 20 seconds before turning off .
So it was remove the spotlights , probably not reqd . Replace T/stat and fan sensor switch and get rad rebuilt with a modern core , flush out old waterless coolant and refill with 50-50 bluecol mix . Fit 2 x 9 inch fans mounted close to the rad for maximum airflow . Takes longer to warm up than before so convinced it was a standard 99 radiator with not enough cooling cores.
So thanks for all the info and help , I won’t be going away as there are more problems to solve so I will be back for more help .


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 Post subject: Re: 99 Turbo running hot
PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 7:37 pm 
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Posts: 4189
Location: REMAINING UNFAITHFUL TO FACTORY STANDARD SPECIFICATIONS SINCE 1988
Car Model: OLD SAABS....NUMEROUS
:wink: 8) :haynes:

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