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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 4:38 pm 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
Just had a quotation for replacement of my vented hot water cylinder with an unvented hot water cylinder for :

Labour only - 1 days work - £1776 - yes you read that right, plumbers are now officially the highest paid individuals you can let through your door, even your solicitor is cheaper than that I am sure.

I even went via Check a Trade.com to try to get a reliable tradesman (you can bet I filled in their feedback form) to no avail. I have had a previous quotation for the same job of £760 which I thought was also ridiculous and a ballpark estimate today by a chap doing another job in the street of £400 tops, he initially started at £200 but it went higher when he saw the location (it's a bit tight).

Rip-off Britain - you betcha :x

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:08 pm 
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Location: East Dorset
Car Model: 9-5 9-3SSx2 Sonett T16S 9000
My boss had a plumber round on Tuesday to fix a leak.
It turned out to be a Flexi shower hose which had split so the plumber put a push fit stop end on the pipe to stop the leak.
The callout fee was £90 for a 10 minute job, but the plumber charged £25 for the stop end. They are £1.10 in Toolstation.
The price was queried and the plumber said, "Well I expect you to pay that because I know where you live!"


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:31 pm 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
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munchcorp wrote:
My boss had a plumber round on Tuesday to fix a leak.
It turned out to be a Flexi shower hose which had split so the plumber put a push fit stop end on the pipe to stop the leak.
The callout fee was £90 for a 10 minute job, but the plumber charged £25 for the stop end. They are £1.10 in Toolstation.
The price was queried and the plumber said, "Well I expect you to pay that because I know where you live!"


Yes callouts are always expensive, they have to charge a lot to show us how important they are, I couldn't have the barefaced cheek I'm afraid.

It pays to know your way around your own house though, I have stop valves all over my plumbing system so a leak would only last less than a minute before I isolated it.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:06 am 
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I am beginning to worry about when I am too old to do stuff like this myself!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:04 am 
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Do it now to make sure :wink: I'm 64 years old and still doing it wherever possible because I can't afford stupid money like that ....

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 10:25 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:23 pm
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Location: Ipswich, Suffolk
Car Model: 900T16s, Daihatsu Charade GTti
At least you can get one out, trying to get hold of someone to even do a service is sooo frustrating, even down to a case of one who did do a service sending me a letter the following year to remind me and when I went to try and book, no reply, I then had another letter saying it's over a year and I need to book a service to keep up the boiler safe!!!
I now have my boiler serviced by the same place that installed my gas fire, exact opposite and even gave me a discount this year :)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:28 pm
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Location: Chandlers Ford Hants
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masonmjs wrote:
Do it now to make sure :wink: I'm 64 years old and still doing it wherever possible because I can't afford stupid money like that ....

I also have put ball-fix valves on everything I can for the same reason as you and I’m getting towards 67 yrs, good advice for anyone who can do it before it costs them plenty :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:23 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:39 am
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Location: SW Herts
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I'm still doing my own plumbing. It should be easy for all you young 60 year olds... ;)

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:41 pm 
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sgould wrote:
I'm still doing my own plumbing. It should be easy for all you young 60 year olds... ;)


Me too.
However, doesn't an unvented cylinder need some sort of certification? It also needs a PRV discharge line run somewhere safe for discharge.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:17 pm 
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Location: SW Herts
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Probably, but I haven't got one!

And I was an opponent of mains pressure hot water too. No storage. Water main fails and it all goes off. It was approved following pressure from the housing industry so that they could save money by building houses with shallow pitch roofs with no access. No tanks in the roof, etc.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:02 pm
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Location: Aberdeen
Car Model: Saab 9000 aero w/jules-tune
I was told by my plumber that his day rate was 350 a day as he charged 1800 for a new boiler install, boiker was 1200, took a bit more than half a day. Was told joiners day rate is roughly 250 a day, took mine 3 days to knstall my kitchen and he did it for 1000 cash in hand - cheapest I could get and he had a good reputation


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:06 am 
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Location: Caerphilly
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Day rate vary by location I’m afraid

I’m £200 per day I’m a plumber but also have a wide skill set , my brother and dad are also plumbers dads fee is a lot higher mainly due to the fact of his extensive knowledge

My other brother is a carpenter but he is £250 per day


Boiler change is £500 that’s pretty standard

The prices quoted above are ridiculous but then if people are stupid enough to pay.....

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:18 am 
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sgould wrote:
And I was an opponent of mains pressure hot water too. No storage. Water main fails and it all goes off. It was approved following pressure from the housing industry so that they could save money by building houses with shallow pitch roofs with no access. No tanks in the roof, etc.

I believe it's popular in flats and I can see why, although when I lived in a flat it had a cold-water storage tank in the airing cupboard above the hot-water cylinder.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:39 am 
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Mains pressure hot water isn't really what you get in blocks of flats. Mains pressure isn't reliable above the third floor these days. Most modern blocks of flats have a storage tank in the basement and their own pumps to simulate mains pressure.

Water companies are being encouraged to reduce mains leakage, and most are reducing the water pressure in the mains as a step towards this rather than finding and repairing leaks.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:25 am 
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Location: Whitley Bay
Car Model: 96, C900, 9k, 9-3 & 9-5
munchcorp wrote:
My boss had a plumber round on Tuesday to fix a leak.
It turned out to be a Flexi shower hose which had split so the plumber put a push fit stop end on the pipe to stop the leak.
The callout fee was £90 for a 10 minute job, but the plumber charged £25 for the stop end. They are £1.10 in Toolstation.
The price was queried and the plumber said, "Well I expect you to pay that because I know where you live!"


Pardon me if I'm missing something, but surely he is going to have to call him out again to actually make the shower work?
Kerching!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 7:06 pm 
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Location: Crewe, Cheshire
Car Model: 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero Estate
Nate wrote:
Day rate vary by location I’m afraid

I’m £200 per day I’m a plumber but also have a wide skill set , my brother and dad are also plumbers dads fee is a lot higher mainly due to the fact of his extensive knowledge

My other brother is a carpenter but he is £250 per day


Boiler change is £500 that’s pretty standard

The prices quoted above are ridiculous but then if people are stupid enough to pay.....


Yes that's the point isn't it, some people are stupid enough to pay those kind of numbers. At £200/day I could even afford to pay £1/mile travel costs (return), + overnight stay and still have change over from either of the two quotes I got, erm I don't suppose you are available in the near future are you :idea: :)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:45 am 
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sgould wrote:
Probably, but I haven't got one!

And I was an opponent of mains pressure hot water too. No storage. Water main fails and it all goes off. It was approved following pressure from the housing industry so that they could save money by building houses with shallow pitch roofs with no access. No tanks in the roof, etc.
I have a pressurised hot water tank in the loft, it does a good job of providing a decent shower!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:08 pm 
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Nate wrote:
Boiler change is £500 that’s pretty standard


Swapping vented cylinder to unvented is not a straight boiler change though is it?

sgould wrote:
And I was an opponent of mains pressure hot water too. No storage. Water main fails and it all goes off. It was approved following pressure from the housing industry so that they could save money by building houses with shallow pitch roofs with no access. No tanks in the roof, etc.


I have a 250L unvented cylinder (which I had to install because I was having a loft conversion and needed to get rid of the tanks associated with the existing vented cylinder setup and wasn't prepared to compromise on flow rate by installing a combi boiler). Really the best thing that can be said for vented cylinder setups is that they are cheap.

For the OP, here is the breakdown of costs of my job:

Parts
System fit 250L unvented water cylinder 1 x £800.00
Eco fit Pure 625 Vaillant System Boiler 1 x £1,200.00
Heating Controls 1 x £60.00
Pipe & Fittings 1 x £300.00
Magnaclean filter 1 x £90.00
Cleaner and Inhibitor 1 x £30.00
Radiator 1 x £80.00
Locksheild and TRV 1 x £20.00
Ply wood 1 x £20.00
Parts Subtotal
£2,600.00

Labour
Decommission old vented hot water cylinder and install new un-vented 250L hot water cylinder with new cold mains supply in 22mm pipe with 25Kw Vaillant system boiler. Install new radiator in living room under window. 1 x £1,500.00
New constant live wire to boiler location 1 x £120.00
Labour Subtotal £1,620.00
Total £4,220.00

Granted that did include another rad being put in, in a room where there was no existing plumbing for one. The guy was here 08:00 in the morning, worked until 20:00 every day, and still took 4 days to do it- so I was very happy. Job needed new wiring main for the twin immersions, new dedicated mains water feed to the cylinder to ensure good flow rates, new gas run for the uprated boiler, cylinder hot water vent run (which needs to be eternal and visible so quite a long run through the whole house). Then you have all sorts of expansion tank and zoning pipework. He also (without me asking and without charging extra) moved the rad drain tap from buried under the floorboards, to exiting the house below that level (so it can be drained from outside without pulling the boards up). It was not a quick job.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 2:12 pm 
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masonmjs wrote:
munchcorp wrote:
The callout fee was £90 for a 10 minute job


Yes callouts are always expensive, they have to charge a lot to show us how important they are, I couldn't have the barefaced cheek I'm afraid.


Or because they need to cover travel time. Wrong side of town and rubbish traffic and that 10 min job has wiped the whole morning out.

I'm not a tradesman, but I don't think everyone is being entirely fair here.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 5:20 pm 
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An unvented hot water tank will have several extras. Some will be built in. But the basic risk is that it's unvented and if the thermostat goes wrong the water in the tank will heat to over 100ºC, which, if it then leaks could turn the contents to steam instantly which will be an explosion. :o

The other things to consider are the water blaw regulations which in the UK prevent any backflow into the water main. So as the water heats it will expand. If the tank has a direct connection, the extra volume will pass back down the inlet and warm it. This will cause warm water to come out of the kitchen cold tap, or in extreme cases warm warte back into the water main. Raising the temperature could cause "things" to grow in the water pipes...

So, you have to fit a non-return valve. Then you have to fit an expansion tank and keep it maintained. It's a metal container with a "rubber" membrane across the middle. Water one side. Air the other. The air is pressurised by pump and will get further compressed when the temperature and pressure of the hot water rises. Then you have to have an emergency pressure relief valve. Plus a thermal relief valve, and some other stuff. But basically you have an 80 litre potential pressure cooker in a cupboard.

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