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 Post subject: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:35 pm 
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Saw this https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7664055/Stubborn-driver-faces-100-fine-hogging-middle-lane-M20-three-miles.html, sorry about the source.

Whilst I agree with the police on this occasion there are parts of the M4 where I would use lane 2 for safety, lane 1 being in a poor state of repair. Any thoughts on this one?


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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:42 pm 
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If he had accepted that he was in the wrong and apologised he would probably have just got a warning not to do it again. Its always better not to argue even if you feel you have not really done much or anything wrong.

WRT the M4 (which I have not used for many years except for the Heathrow approach), have you complained to the Highways Agency abut the state of it? If it is just a bit rough there is probably little excuse. If it is dangerously deteriorated they should be doing something about it anyway but if you have a copy of a written complaint it would give some backup to your case.

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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:45 pm 
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TWSaab wrote:
If he had accepted that he was in the wrong and apologised he would probably have just got a warning not to do it again. Its always better not to argue even if you feel you have not really done much or anything wrong.

WRT the M4 (which I have not used for many years except for the Heathrow approach), have you complained to the Highways Agency abut the state of it? If it is just a bit rough there is probably little excuse. If it is dangerously deteriorated they should be doing something about it anyway but if you have a copy of a written complaint it would give some backup to your case.

I haven't used the M4 for some time either so I can only hope it has been repaired. I used to work in the same company as the head of Highways England, Jim O'Sullivan, so I wouldn't have a problem with complaining.


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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:10 pm 
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I would agree with some of the above comments, the left hand lanes on busy motorways get so much more wear and tear because of the heavy lorries that pound them constantly. Because of that they are often much bumpier than the other lanes.
If the motorway is actually empty I see no harm in using the middle lane, but if there is any other traffic about it’s best to stick to the rules. As the police car was close enough to to film him that would constitute ‘other traffic’.
Arguing the point didn’t do him any favours though.

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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:22 pm 
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I agree, my pet peve was always lane hoggers. I used to drive for a living and the amount of times I had to pull out of lane one, cross lane two, overtake in lane three, then pull back across to lane one was unbelievable. In my opinion this is more dangerous than undertaking. How often is the M20 clear for 3 miles?


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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:27 pm 
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His attitude wont have helped his situation but I reckon he was being busted no matter what. There's been some high profile ads and stuff the last couple of years about lane discipline so even though you should have read it in your highway code there's little or no excuse for claiming ignorance of the law. IIRC the last change in the law was the addition of points as well as a fine. It's not new.

His "empty road" nonsense is just that, tosh. On that basis I can drive on the right-hand side of the local main road because nothing else is coming towards me. The rough road cuts no ice with me unless it's really crumbling. They spend billions on suspension development for comfortable cars on less than billiard table smooth roads.

As for being followed by Plod for three miles and not being aware they are behind you just says inattentive driver to me. If you stop checking your mirrors because the roade is quiet... :roll: Even worse if he has seen them and continued.

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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:18 pm 
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Hang him!


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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:30 pm 
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Excellent work by Kent Police refreshing change to hear of a motoring offence other than speeding being prosecuted.

I'm a bit surprised nobody's questioned the validity of the story though

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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:31 pm 
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It is not illegal if you don,t indicate when no one is around. Why should you move to the left lane if no one is around.... but then the Police car thought they were around!! Usual news, more to the prosecution than we are told I am sure....

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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:59 pm 
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DeeDub8 wrote:

As for being followed by Plod for three miles and not being aware they are behind you just says inattentive driver to me. If you stop checking your mirrors because the roade is quiet... :roll: Even worse if he has seen them and continued.


Might have been an unmarked car, they are used a lot on the motorways. He should still have been in the n/s lane but if the car behind, presumably in the n/s lane, was not trying to pass and was not covered in stripes he might not have thought it was police.

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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:56 pm 
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The m20 is rarely 'deserted' or even not busy for a short way, let alone 3 miles!

I strongly suspect this chap failed the attitude test, and was trying to make a point.
I also think to a certain degree the police are trying to make a point too. A few high profile tickets and maybe people will make more of an effort to keep left (there are a significant number of middle lane morons around Kent :wall:).

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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:00 pm 
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DeeDub8 wrote:
His attitude wont have helped his situation but I reckon he was being busted no matter what. There's been some high profile ads and stuff the last couple of years about lane discipline so even though you should have read it in your highway code there's little or no excuse for claiming ignorance of the law. IIRC the last change in the law was the addition of points as well as a fine. It's not new.

His "empty road" nonsense is just that, tosh. On that basis I can drive on the right-hand side of the local main road because nothing else is coming towards me. The rough road cuts no ice with me unless it's really crumbling. They spend billions on suspension development for comfortable cars on less than billiard table smooth roads.

As for being followed by Plod for three miles and not being aware they are behind you just says inattentive driver to me. If you stop checking your mirrors because the roade is quiet... :roll: Even worse if he has seen them and continued.


Exactly what I was thinking

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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:27 pm 
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McVities wrote:
there are a significant number of middle lane morons around Kent :wall:).


It's not just kent :wall: :cen:


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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:09 pm 
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I had to attend a Speed Awareness course about a year ago (yes, for the obvious reason :) ) and this was discussed there. Curiously enough, 85% of the attendees were female which amused me no end. :D

Anyway, it transpired that lane hogging is now officially against the law and you can be fined for it, and the 'smart motorways' are going to make it easier to catch the offenders apparently (and about b....y time too IMHO).

That's it, rant over .... :corn:

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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:05 am 
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Travelling back from the SOC, BB&H Ace Café meeting a couple of weeks ago I was on the M11 between the M25 & Stanstead. There was a car in the middle lane doing 45mph. I rarely do more than 65mph in the 99 as it is now 43 years old,so I was in the inside lane. It was sometime after 11pm so the road was fairly empty. I had to cross two lanes to overtake him then again to return to the left hand lane. Even after passing him/her and returning to the left lane he/she still stubbornly stuck to the middle lane.

Two very rare occurrences:
1) The 99 was in lane 3.
2) The 99 actually passed something!

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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:06 pm 
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Ursa Minor wrote:
Travelling back from the SOC, BB&H Ace Café meeting a couple of weeks ago I was on the M11 between the M25 & Stanstead. There was a car in the middle lane doing 45mph. I rarely do more than 65mph in the 99 as it is now 43 years old,so I was in the inside lane. It was sometime after 11pm so the road was fairly empty. I had to cross two lanes to overtake him then again to return to the left hand lane. Even after passing him/her and returning to the left lane he/she still stubbornly stuck to the middle lane.

Two very rare occurrences:
1) The 99 was in lane 3.
2) The 99 actually passed something!


I would have stayed in the left hand lane myself, it's not against the law to pass somebody on the inside on the motorway and since you are not coming into the middle lane afterwards you are not undertaking either, just driving faster than the numpty in the middle lane.

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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:19 pm 
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That's right.
As long as you don't change speed or change lanes to do so you can pass on the left.
I'm always very cautious about doing so, you need to remember that the person you're passing is clearly oblivious to their surroundings otherwise they wouldn't be in that position in the first place. It's not a huge leap of imagination to assume that a driver who pays no attention to what lane they're in may also change lanes without checking their mirrors or indicating

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Last edited by Gaz38 on Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:21 pm 
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masonmjs wrote:

I would have stayed in the left hand lane myself, it's not against the law to pass somebody on the inside on the motorway and since you are not coming into the middle lane afterwards you are not undertaking either, just driving faster than the numpty in the middle lane.


Gaz38 wrote:
That's right.
As long as you don't change speed or change to do so you can pass on the left


https://www.highwaycodeuk.co.uk/overtaking.html

Highway Code wrote:
268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.


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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:30 pm 
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There is a stated case where a judge made a ruling that as long as a vehicle does not alter course or speed it is not considered to be "overtaking" this makes the above quote from the Highway Code irrelevant

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 Post subject: Re: Middle lane "owner"
PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:07 pm 
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If you're already in lane 1, you're not moving to a lane on your left to overtake. Also, if you were in lane 1 and the lane hogger is in no.2, in theory does moving to lane 3 to pass them and back to lane 1 again then put you in contravention of the section "Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake" - or is that only in congested conditions?

Kent Police tweeted a similar incident yesterday - they were using an unmarked HGV by the looks of it ... and followed/observed a car staying on the M20 in lane 2 for 11 miles ... :wall:

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