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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:43 pm 
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9000Parts wrote:
I was once told by an insurer that it was illegal to have more than one policy on a vehicle. They couldnt provide which law this would contravene when challenged though. With NCD, can the current supplier demand its only used on one vehicle or is it the new provider(s) that get to decide if they would both accept the same NCD? There wont be anything in law that prevents it from happening.

It would appear they (the insurance industry) don't *want* you to use the same NCD on more than one car/policy and thus say "you can't". Yet when it comes to a non-fault non-claim on an unrelated policy they load your premiums even though you have not claimed and not even on one of their policies even if you had have.

It's a classic cake-and-eat-it philosophy and they continue to get away with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:04 pm 
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SaabnScotland wrote:
Had a multi car policy for a few years, find it incredibly cheap. Renewal arrived today for 4 cars, one on business use, 3 drivers. £548.72 that’s dearer than last year so will phone and see if I can get it reduced.


So I got round to the annual phoning of the insurance to ask the question is that the best you can do. As in previous years they reduced the price but not by as much as usual, however I still think it’s cheap at £514 that averages £128.50 per car. I may be wrong but I can’t see me getting that cheaper on an individual basis.

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 7:59 am 
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The matter that has left me paying more than i would prefer is due to my period with company cars which put me back 0 years NCD. I have since built up 5 years on one policy and 4 on another but the insurers I have been talking to have not been open to allowing NCD to build on more than one policy at a time.

I was therefore getting quotes on the Jag with 5, a Saab 9-5 with 4 and the other two with none. This meant me least powerful and oldest cars were the most expensive to insure.

I see here that others have had more amenable insurers, maybe if I had gone directly to insurers rather than using brokers or comparison sites then I might have had better results something to bear in mind for next year.

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:04 am 
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Trying to add a fourth vehicle now.
Has to be on zero NCD.

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 8:45 pm 
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Why not use a different insurer and give them the proof of NCD from your last renewal? Obviously you can't lie and say it's not in use on another vehicle but it they don't ask...

If also like to know what happens if you combine 3 separately insured cars with their own legitimate NCD onto one fleet for policy, then decide not to do the same the following year. Can you use that NCD on all the cars, or just one of them?

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:00 pm 
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Difference between 2 years NCD and zero NCD for me was £25.

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:26 am 
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Jules_ht wrote:
Why not use a different insurer and give them the proof of NCD from your last renewal? Obviously you can't lie and say it's not in use on another vehicle but it they don't ask...

If also like to know what happens if you combine 3 separately insured cars with their own legitimate NCD onto one fleet for policy, then decide not to do the same the following year. Can you use that NCD on all the cars, or just one of them?


Interesting question, has anyone had experience of this?

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:13 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:13 pm
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Location: Peterborough UK
Car Model: 9-5 Aero 2001,1.9TID x 2
I have used multicar policies for 3 cars for a few years now and have changed back and forth between Aviva and Admiral.
Each car has been issued with proof of no claims and has been directly transferable.
Total cost has been in the £400-450 range for 2x9-3 Vert/Wagon and 1x9-5 Aero with 20K annual mileage we are in our 60's.
I always opt for NC bonus protection (for what its really worth?) but dont take extras like breakdown cover or courtesy car etc


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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:17 am 
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Magrew wrote:
Jules_ht wrote:
If also like to know what happens if you combine 3 separately insured cars with their own legitimate NCD onto one fleet for policy, then decide not to do the same the following year. Can you use that NCD on all the cars, or just one of them?


Interesting question, has anyone had experience of this?

Yes. When I had a multicar policy some years ago (with Admiral, I think?) the proof of NCD was split between the cars when I left them. In fact, even with subsequent cars insured with separate policies under one insurer, I remember slimming down the fleet by 1 car and being allowed to split the NCD on that policy across the other cars in whatever proportion I chose.
I can't remember how the original NCDs were treated when I started the multi-car policy (it was a good few years ago) but I have a feeling they were added together into one NCD for the multi-car policy.

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:04 pm 
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Location: Wigan, Lancashire
Car Model: 9000 Anni, 9-5s by the score
It makes me wonder what the Industry views NCD as.
I can understand having NCD for separate cars for an individual. If I have a small runaround that keeps getting bumped around town and a pampered supercar that is never in an incident I can see that an insurer would trim the NCD on the runaround.

I may be answering my own question.

I can see that my claims history in the runaround would make the computer think I was a greater risk and *cough* adjust the base premium for my supercar even if I keep the full NCD on it.

I can put forward the case that if I get another supercar they could match the NCD with my existing car as they have historical information as evidence. That train of logic should allow Them to match NCD on additional vehicles.

A claim on one car shouldn't affect the NCD on another IMHO though it may stiff your base premium.

I wonder if that's what happens? :roll:

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:29 pm 
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BillJ wrote:
Magrew wrote:
Jules_ht wrote:
If also like to know what happens if you combine 3 separately insured cars with their own legitimate NCD onto one fleet for policy, then decide not to do the same the following year. Can you use that NCD on all the cars, or just one of them?


Interesting question, has anyone had experience of this?

Yes. When I had a multicar policy some years ago (with Admiral, I think?) the proof of NCD was split between the cars when I left them. In fact, even with subsequent cars insured with separate policies under one insurer, I remember slimming down the fleet by 1 car and being allowed to split the NCD on that policy across the other cars in whatever proportion I chose.
I can't remember how the original NCDs were treated when I started the multi-car policy (it was a good few years ago) but I have a feeling they were added together into one NCD for the multi-car policy.


How does that add up with the infuriating policy insurers seem to have, of capping the number of years NCD they "recognise"? I've (in theory) got 21 yrs NCD all from 21 yrs of continuous insurance from one car to the next, yet I've had a case where it's at 15 and you move it to someone who only recognises 12 and so only gives you proof of 12 when you leave - "costing" you 3 yrs when in reality you have another year claim free.

I've now also got a second set of NCD that is ostensibly just as long as the first, from LV deciding arbitrarily to replicate my first NCD on a second car. Different policy numbers, different renewal dates (and letters) - so I've had no problem providing proof of both even when I've long since left LCV with both cars (to different insurers). How come LV are allowed to start handing out second sets of NCD without any consultation with other insurers?

Back to multi car. Are we thinking that I go there with my 2* 15 yrs proven NCD, and they will award me 30 years, then at the end another years (since there are 2 cars), I will have a renewal leter showing 32 yrs for me to split however I like with other insurers? It sounds farcical to be honest (that is a comment about the structure of the arrangement, not the assertion that this is the arrangement Bill!). Say I buy a third car and decide 10 on one, and 11 each on the other two cars- can you see the three different insurers buying that? Will they start ringing each other to check my total allocation adds up to the 32 yrs I have (even when they renewal dates are all different)?

Back again to single insurers. I've just had a read through all my docs for one of my policies (with eSure). I've read every single word of my "renewal invitation", my "renewal schedule" (that does have a lot to say about NCDs, but nothing about using it twice), my "renewal certificate", and my "Policy Booklet" (that also has a lot - over a page - of info related to NCD).

Not one single mention anywhere in any of the documents about only being able to use it on one car. I also don't recall at renewal ever having been either asked whether the NCD is in use on two cars, or being told that I cannot do it. I don't recall any renewal letter/proof of NCD stating that I can't then go and use that NCD on two separate policies.

I am not aware of any specific law saying you can't do it- insurares can cover whatever risk they like, give whatever bonuses (or impose whatever penalites they like), for however much money they like- provided the underwriters agree it. Insurers go to great lengths to write every last exclusion down in small print, yet they do not say a dicky bird in this area in any document associated with the policy. Are we supposed to know this instinctively? I'm fairly certain that in a court of law arbitrating on a dispute, an insurer would not be able to invalidate insurance on the basis of a term or condition that was never disclosed to the customer.

So why are we all so convinced that we cannot do it?

I'm not too worried myself- I only need 2 cars, and both have now had an NCD of their own for almost 10 years. But moving forward, if I did want to go to3 cars, I am not sure I'd be up for being bullied into not declaring an NCD on the basis I'd already "used" it when nowhere does it say that you can't.

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:50 pm 
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[/quote]I'm not too worried myself- I only need 2 cars, and both have now had an NCD of their own for almost 10 years. But moving forward, if I did want to go to3 cars, I am not sure I'd be up for being bullied into not declaring an NCD on the basis I'd already "used" it when nowhere does it say that you can't.[/quote]

If this is the case then this appears to be a scam on the part of the insurance companies which must be extremely financially advantageous to them. This will affect more people than PPI.

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:55 am 
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Jules_ht wrote:
Back to multi car. Are we thinking that I go there with my 2* 15 yrs proven NCD, and they will award me 30 years, then at the end another years (since there are 2 cars), I will have a renewal leter showing 32 yrs for me to split however I like with other insurers? It sounds farcical to be honest (that is a comment about the structure of the arrangement, not the assertion that this is the arrangement Bill!). Say I buy a third car and decide 10 on one, and 11 each on the other two cars- can you see the three different insurers buying that? Will they start ringing each other to check my total allocation adds up to the 32 yrs I have (even when they renewal dates are all different)?

The re-allocation took place while I was still insured under the multi-car policy. I wasn't free to move the NCDs around other than to allocate the accumulated NCD of the car I had removed from the policy across the remaining cars. I certainly would not have expected a new insurer to look at the NCD allocated to each car, add them all up and re-allocate them however I wished. I don't know what would have happened if I had added more cars to the policy because I never did.
When I gave up that policy the proof of NCD was provided for each car. I don't recall it being capped. I left with at least 9 years' NCD on one car and I'm pretty sure that is all I had accumulated on that car at the time.

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:03 am 
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Magrew wrote:
Jules_HT wrote:
I'm not too worried myself- I only need 2 cars, and both have now had an NCD of their own for almost 10 years. But moving forward, if I did want to go to3 cars, I am not sure I'd be up for being bullied into not declaring an NCD on the basis I'd already "used" it when nowhere does it say that you can't.


If this is the case then this appears to be a scam on the part of the insurance companies which must be extremely financially advantageous to them. This will affect more people than PPI.


I'm not sure what the complaint would be. If an insurer declines to accept an NCD that is also being used on another policy, that is their right. If a customer decided not to try because they heard once that you can't do it, then that's down to the customer. I guess the people potentially in the firing line are brokers telling people they can't do it an insurer may have no such policy.

Still not clear on how NCD works with multi-car policies. Say you've got a car and 12 years of NCD from that. Say you've got a second car with 5yrs. Let's buy a third car and get a multi car policy. How much NCD do they recognise? What happens at the end of the policy? Do you have 3 cars with 13 yrs, 1 with 13 one with 6 and 1 with 1, or do you just get one set of 13 and the other cars supposedly start from zero again? Or does it depend on the insurer you're moving to?

The answer seems rather important- could be the difference between multi car being the fastest way to 3 sets of full NCD (assuming you subscribe to the unwritten rule on NCDs) or the fastest way to being tied to that type of policy and that provider indefinitely.

Any solid info from current and past multi car policy holders welcome.

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:19 am 
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Actually, re-reading the eSure documents, I can find this text in the policy booklet (which does form part of the contract):

Quote:
When you buy your policy, if we’ve been unable to verify your No Claim Discount entitlement using the ‘NCD database’, you’ll need to provide us with proof of this in the form of your latest renewal invitation or a letter which confirms the cancellation of your policy and your No Claim Discount entitlement from your previous insurer.


Now clearly (depending on what info MID contains) if you are in the middle of your policy you are going to be unable to do this.

But if you are at the natural end of your previous policy, you will have your renewal letter. The last part of the sentence is interesting, because it implies that you can't use an NCD twice. But it doesn't say that. Nothing there says you cannot provide that letter and simultaneously supply it to another insurer. Also there is no such caveat on the renewal letter proof option.

These (policy documents) are legal documents, written in very careful language by qualified people. Contracts terms are not the subject of loose implication, and lawyers do not use ambiguous language- they are specific in their inclusions and exclusions. Why didn't they add "and is not in use on another policy" somewhere in the paragraph? They've written 32 pages of T&Cs in minute detail, seems a bit of an oversight.

That said, potentially you could suggest that the caveat that is there does sow sufficient doubt to suggest that it may be a material fact (that consequently you should therefore proactively disclose- and at that point they may (and would be entitled to) decline to quote).

BUT either way, even if you do subscribe to the idea that the text above does constitute a written exclusion on using the same NCD letter on two policies with different insurers, clearly there are insurers who will mirror onto a second car and effectively give you a second set of NCD for one year of cover on the second car. I don't think that anyone could interpret the caveat above a being able or designed to prevent that- which makes a mockery of the whole concept of not being able to duplicate NCDs.

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:45 pm 
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Jules_ht wrote:
Still not clear on how NCD works with multi-car policies. Say you've got a car and 12 years of NCD from that. Say you've got a second car with 5yrs. Let's buy a third car and get a multi car policy. How much NCD do they recognise? What happens at the end of the policy? Do you have 3 cars with 13 yrs, 1 with 13 one with 6 and 1 with 1, or do you just get one set of 13 and the other cars supposedly start from zero again? Or does it depend on the insurer you're moving to?

I'm sure we can't expect all multicar policies to handle it in the same way so the correct answer would be "contact the insurer to find out their terms and conditions".

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:04 pm 
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BillJ wrote:
Jules_ht wrote:
Still not clear on how NCD works with multi-car policies. Say you've got a car and 12 years of NCD from that. Say you've got a second car with 5yrs. Let's buy a third car and get a multi car policy. How much NCD do they recognise? What happens at the end of the policy? Do you have 3 cars with 13 yrs, 1 with 13 one with 6 and 1 with 1, or do you just get one set of 13 and the other cars supposedly start from zero again? Or does it depend on the insurer you're moving to?

I'm sure we can't expect all multicar policies to handle it in the same way so the correct answer would be "contact the insurer to find out their terms and conditions".


Which was why I requested any current or existing multi-car policy holders chip in with their experiences, I've got no idea at the moment how it works for even one of the offerings. It is a factor in how much value a multi car policy might be.

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:41 pm 
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In my own experience with Admiral and Aviva each car is treated as a separate policy with the relevant NCD accruing for the main driver.

When transfering to another provider proof of NCD is again generated for each car separately.
As part of the negotiations the insurer may mirror NCD across for another car which happened in our own situation when adding a 3rd car a few years ago.

So I suppose I see a multi car policy as simply having multiple policies with the same provider and the benefit of a lower premium due to the supposedly higher discounts.

The biggest issue for me is deciding who is the main driver as we both drive all 3 cars.....you cant have 50/50
as the main driver carries the NCD.


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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:19 pm 
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cjapeterborough wrote:
In my own experience with Admiral and Aviva each car is treated as a separate policy with the relevant NCD accruing for the main driver.

When transfering to another provider proof of NCD is again generated for each car separately.
As part of the negotiations the insurer may mirror NCD across for another car which happened in our own situation when adding a 3rd car a few years ago.

So I suppose I see a multi car policy as simply having multiple policies with the same provider and the benefit of a lower premium due to the supposedly higher discounts.

The biggest issue for me is deciding who is the main driver as we both drive all 3 cars.....you cant have 50/50
as the main driver carries the NCD.

Wouldn't you lose the NCD of you swapped main driver from the one with the NCD to the one without?

Interesting info, thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Multicar insurance
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:15 am 
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Location: Peterborough UK
Car Model: 9-5 Aero 2001,1.9TID x 2
In our situation my wife and I are both retired and the only drivers of the 3 Saabs.
So one of us has two policies with full NCD and I think I have just the other one.

I have had the argument with insurance companies many times about the "main driver" nomination especially when trying to give an honest answer.

Who is the main driver?

The answer is it can change on a daily basis and in response to circumstances through the year so you can argue who the main driver is either way unless you keep a hourly log of use.

In the end it was decided on the basis who is driving it today!

As long as someone has the NCD and they remain on the policy then it isnt lost.


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