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 Post subject: The End is Beginning.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:10 pm 
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Talking Turkey
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Location: not in a SAAB.
Car Model: One of the first RHD 9-5s
Started seriously looking at EVs today and financing one. 3 year old Zoe with 15K on the clock and fully owned batteries for £6K sounds appealing.

I do know that Lindsays Aero is dying slowly so need to put mine on the drive as a spare. It has a proper B235R in so the Aero will live on but for me Internal Combustion and boost is going to come to an end in the next few months.

Need to sort out a charging point which means drop kerb needs going in now but my work have agreed that they would install a charger too.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:20 pm 
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I shall be interested to hear your experiences.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:23 pm 
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Car Model: 96, C900, 9k, 9-3 & 9-5
I just can't get excited about electric cars, I'm afraid. I know it's the future but....


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:25 pm 
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Location: Mulbarton,Norfolk
Car Model: TTid's only now :-(
Few friends have them.

One a Zoe,
Couple Leaf's
One a Lexus hybrid


Leaf ownes are the most enthused.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:00 pm 
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wrighar wrote:
Few friends have them.

One a Zoe,
Couple Leaf's
One a Lexus hybrid


Leaf ownes are the most enthused.


Wait until you meet a Tesla owner then!

Leafs seem to be holding their value well compared to the Zoe. The compulsory battery lease may be the thing killing prices on the Zoe though? I can see me working my way into a Tesla Model 3 in the next couple of years.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:49 pm 
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Good luck, and I also look forward to how you get on. I have friends with Zoes and Leafs. Like the Zoe better.

The only common denominator with all the owners, and they are all over the country, is all without exception went all EV and now have an ICE vehicle as well. EV is used most, but all said they needed ICE as well. Two were one car families before, and are 2 car families now.

I suspect your turbo fun will end in the next few months, and will return in a year or so! Hopefully not, but genuinely interested how you get on. I personally think EV is the medium term future, but we are not set up for it yet and so are not ready.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:10 pm 
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TFatC wrote:
Good luck, and I also look forward to how you get on. I have friends with Zoes and Leafs. Like the Zoe better.

The only common denominator with all the owners, and they are all over the country, is all without exception went all EV and now have an ICE vehicle as well. EV is used most, but all said they needed ICE as well. Two were one car families before, and are 2 car families now.

I suspect your turbo fun will end in the next few months, and will return in a year or so! Hopefully not, but genuinely interested how you get on. I personally think EV is the medium term future, but we are not set up for it yet and so are not ready.


Lindsay will keep the Aero for now and my Mongrel v2 will go back to being a garden ornament again as a spare. If we are going to do any distance then the Aero will do the job but we are paying for that every week anyway. Cost wise, financing and running one is on a par with what I spend running my car which at low 20s MPG isnt cheap, even with the relatively low mileage I do. The new Zoe 40 has enough range to get me to and from work 6 days a week and I have a big solar array which can generate enough excess supply to charge the car at least once a week. Just need to look at a storage solution to make that happen. This would make the running costs virtually £0. Just the odd set of tyres and maybe some breaks very occasionally?

I will miss the power and fun of an oversized, overweight, overpowered FWD car but its time to move on and once there is a Tesla on the drive I will have something far more capable than any SAAB has ever been.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:16 pm 
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TFatC wrote:
Good luck, and I also look forward to how you get on. I have friends with Zoes and Leafs. Like the Zoe better.

The only common denominator with all the owners, and they are all over the country, is all without exception went all EV and now have an ICE vehicle as well. EV is used most, but all said they needed ICE as well. Two were one car families before, and are 2 car families now.

I suspect your turbo fun will end in the next few months, and will return in a year or so! Hopefully not, but genuinely interested how you get on. I personally think EV is the medium term future, but we are not set up for it yet and so are not ready.


I believe new leaf's come with a couple of weeks of ICE loan car per year from nissan dealers :-)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:19 pm 
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Robert wrote:
I just can't get excited about electric cars, I'm afraid. I know it's the future but....


I'm looking at one as a commuting tool. 55 miles each way on M6/M1. I'd struggle to get excited about doing that in a Veyron!

I *think* that over 5yrs, 25k/yr an ev will work out the same as running my s80 D5 but I don't have to ever touch a spanner. Assuming that both cars detonate at the end of month 60 that is. If the EV lives longer, its a better financial bet.

Zoe is nice, but a bit basic for my tastes on the above route. 1yr old Ioniq or ex-demo gen2 leaf at the end of 2018 would be more tempting.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:15 am 
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Car Model: DE Saab 95 2.3 Aero stg1
Watching thread with interest.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:43 am 
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Location: Just outside of Wiganshire
Car Model: 9-3 Turbo X / 9-3 Convertible
I found myself looking at EVs after reading this thread. The brain cells are clunking now.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:50 am 
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Car Model: DE Saab 95 2.3 Aero stg1
I've always had an interest in them after having an electric bike I built. But I shy away from cars as I think at the time I thought they were too heavy to make batteries useful.

I mean you can't get round physics. The heavier something is the more energy it takes to move.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:06 am 
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Location: Whitley Bay
Car Model: 96, C900, 9k, 9-3 & 9-5
I think my main issues are:
a) A distrust of electronics. Basically if it goes phut, I stand no chance of being able to fix it by the roadside
b) a distrust of the government and not being fully in control of stuff. I dn't want the powers that be to be able to interrogate my vehicle to find I was doing 85 on the Motorway
c) NO BURBLE.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 10:49 am 
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Car Model: 2008 93 aero, noob'd
problem solved for point C

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sound-Racer- ... UW3Hx0JBaw

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:41 am 
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Robert wrote:
I think my main issues are:
a) A distrust of electronics. Basically if it goes phut, I stand no chance of being able to fix it by the roadside
b) a distrust of the government and not being fully in control of stuff. I dn't want the powers that be to be able to interrogate my vehicle to find I was doing 85 on the Motorway
c) NO BURBLE.


On point A, you have exactly the same issue with any modern car. A random fault somewhere in the electronics has the ability to kill the car dead with no way of finding the problem and fixing it. I had a Big Red Relay in a 9000 that would stall the engine if you turned the lights on or hit a bump when the lights were on and it was only blind luck I figured that one out.

On point B, your phone in your pocket is already capable of doing that even with data switched off. The ability to geo-locate a phone according to phone masts is there and maybe its already in use? Certainly has been used in the US already to track people.

On point C, I have the radio on quite loud so dont really care too much about the noise any more.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Car Model: 2005, 9-5 Aero, Noob 3
I'm sure you'll enjoy it, you've extolled the virtues of EV for yourself with passion, personally it's not for me whilst I still have a choice especially as you have pointed out, there is no cost benefit. I enjoy working on mechanicals, I enjoy the noise and the choice.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:01 pm 
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jimmy_wynn wrote:
I found myself looking at EVs after reading this thread. The brain cells are clunking now.


I don't think you will be alone with that thought, I am struggling to come to terms with not having a Saab in a few years if the government makes all ic. vehicles financially impossible.
Isn't the lack of noise with ev going to be a concern/problem for pedestrians etc. who won't hear it coming?

Chris

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:26 pm 
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Car Model: 900 turbo
This is a badly thought out idea as a whole, lpg petrol conversions are much more viable, also how the hell are 100+ cars arriving at a motorway service station [each hour and probably a lot more] going to be able to recharge their cars ?, when each, at best will take 30minutes to charge up! just wait till there's deaths caused by people not hearing them too, and we have loads of rapeseed to make bio diesel, also as for carbon foot print, just think how much more electricity will have to be produced, let alone all the scrap batteries! i for one will be ending my life mad max style down under off grid without the nonsense,nikola tesla is however one of my heros & the only electric car worth having at present imo! oh and just wait for the government to find a way to get the fuel duty back,tough luck folks your electric bills gone up 300%,dont pay,dont get about ,unless your rich,hmm is there a plan here? and lastly see how long the makers think the batteries will last and the replacement cost,all i'll say is there is going to be a lot of Toyota priuses dumped soon.A daily mail reader? I'd rather go blind.I see no mention of how the government would recoup their fuel duty,bit naïve.


Last edited by saab 900 fan on Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:50 pm 
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saab 900 fan wrote:
This is a badly thought out idea as a whole, lpg petrol conversions are much more viable, also how the hell are 100+ cars arriving at a motorway service station [each hour and probably a lot more] going to be able to recharge their cars ?, when each, at best will take 30minutes to charge up! just wait till there's deaths caused by people not hearing them too, and we have loads of rapeseed to make bio diesel, also as for carbon foot print, just think how much more electricity will have to be produced, let alone all the scrap batteries! i for one will be ending my life mad max style down under off grid without the nonsense,nikola tesla is however one of my heros & the only electric car worth having at present imo! oh and just wait for the government to find a way to get the fuel duty back,tough luck folks your electric bills gone up 300%,dont pay,dont get about ,unless your rich,hmm is there a plan here? and lastly see how long the makers think the batteries will last and the replacement cost,all i'll say is there is going to be a lot of Toyota priuses dumped soon.


As more EVs appear on the road more charging infrastructure will appear. Faster charging times are coming and better battery capacity is happening all the time. By the time there are enough EVs on the road for this to be an issue the problems will have been solved with a variety of solutions.

LPG is a derivitive of fossil fuel production and we are trying to get away from that, not encourage it.

The sound thing is an issue although EVs are far from silent and you can still hear tyre noise on the surface quite clearly. As far as crossing roads, sight is the primary method of checking its clear rather than sound. The US have legislated that from sometime this year any car travelling below about 30MPH will have to make a minimum amount of noise although they specified what noise so expect people driving round with annoying clown horns at some point.

In the UK we could grow enough Bio Diesel to satisfy about 1/2 of the total demand. So long as you give up all agricultural ground for it and rely entirely on food imports instead, causing lots of extra pollution moving the food about.

As it stands, we have massive generating capacity to satisfy a 3 hour peak demand window. All you do is charge your EVs outside that window. This increases efficiency massively as you arent running a power station and dumping its power as its on standby for a spike in demand. With the UK now generating more than 20% of its energy from renewables and increasing rapidly the pollution argument isnt adding up. Unless you are an avid Daily Mail reader that is?

As for the batteries, they arent dying anywhere near as quickly as expected and many that are no good for cars still have good capacity and find their way into local storage systems. If they really are knackered they are very easily recycled. As for the key component. Lithium, it makes up about 2% by volume of the battery, most of it is packaging rather than battery.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:38 pm 
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As long as your EV isn't just diverting your pollution to a legacy powerstation...

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